Women’s Guide to NYC Dating

Posted by Bill Cammack On April - 4 - 2008

Somehow, I ended up seeing this article by Richard Florida about the singles scene and it had this really interesting map on it, which got me thinking about supply & demand:


Fortunately for meeeeee, NYC happens to be THE PLACE TO BE with an excess of females to the tune of 210,820 more single women than men! :D

Sucks to be YOU if you live in Los Angeles, where the map indicates there are 89,459 more single men than women. Ah well… C’est La Vie! :D

This is one of the reasons why the stuff I talk about doesn’t apply to everyone. Life just isn’t fair! :D You can’t throw a rock in NYC without… well… you know what I mean… with numbers like that, there are literally tens of thousands of surplus GOOD-LOOKING chicks in this town. And that’s only the women that IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES as single.

So the supply of men here is short, so the demand by women is higher… Or, to think about that another way, there are too many women here for them to gain any leverage. This means that guys in New York get to “act the fool”, and for every woman that decides she’s not going to date you, there are like 3 more within eyeshot that are waiting to meet you as soon as this chick gets out of their way. :D

So… What can the ladies do to improve their chances at scoring a date in NYC?

1) Be a nice person. This isn’t Los Angeles. You’re not in demand. WE are! :D There’s no reason to play the stuck up role or try to ignore a brotha like he just asked you for change so he can get something to eat. If his presentation is proper, and he steps to you respectfully, consider at least acknowledging his presence. Yes… We know he’s trying to have sex with you regardless of what he says, but at least give the guy some credit for being a gentleman about it.

2) Have interesting things to say. A lot of women skate through life on their looks and are never required to be decent people or have a charming, intelligent personality. Separate yourself from the crowd by knowing something about something USEFUL… like football! :D Know something about the stock market or motorcycles or tech gadgets. Come up with SOMETHING so the guy sees you as someone cool and interesting and not just a target. Women are always complaining about being seen as “sex objects”. You know how to avoid that? Show him there’s more he can do with you or talk to you about than sex.

3) Eat when you go out to a restaurant. You know what I mean, too. Not just a salad when you’re sitting there staring at my cheeseburger, “hungry than a mug”. What you eat right now is NOT going to make you look any different. You’re not going to look slimmer with a piece of lettuce at the end of your fork or holding a stalk of celery. It’s already apparent that you like to “get your eat on”, so DO YOU! Go for what you know! Order more than your date does and scarf it down. Get that napkin, tap the corners of your lips and ask him what’s for dessert!

We know damned well that AS SOON AS y’all leave us, you scramble to the nearest restaurant to stuff your faces, so you’re better off keeping it REAL. He’ll respect you for that.

4) Be athletic. Yes, there are lots of guys that like women with no muscle tone. There are also guys that like athletic women. Why is that? Because you can actually DO THINGS WITH THEM! You know why you don’t get invited to the batting cages?… Because YOU CAN’T BAT! Same thing for the Jiu-Jitsu class and when he goes to play roller hockey or ultimate frisbee in the park. This isn’t the 1930’s, with the guys all on the football field and the ladies sitting together in a bunch on a bench under a tree fixing cold cut sandwiches for lunch. Nope. Pick up that football and step on the field. Go for that 5-and-across and burn your date for the winning touchdown! :D Let him know what time it is. Trust me. His friends will buy YOU more beers than they’ll buy for HIM after the game!

5) Last, but certainly not least… Actually, probably the most important…

LOOK GOOD!

Look good. You would be surprised, out of our NYC surplus of 210,820 women, HOW MANY OF THEM schlep around town in an appalling state of disrepair. :( Somebody lied to y’all and told you that you could look like anything and still get raps. Nope. Not THIS day and time, my sistah! If you want to look bad and still get attention, move to L.A. or anywhere with one of those large BLUE dots. NYC isn’t for you. In fact, according to that map, there’s no place for you on the entire Eastern Seaboard. You’d better go visit Prince in Minneapolis! See if he’ll sing you a song or something, ’cause you’re done around these parts.

Don’t worry about whether a guy’s going to buy you a drink at the club… YOU have to worry about GETTING IN the club to begin with. Paying off the bouncer might work… Anyway… Stop being lazy. Accentuate the positive & play down the negative. Stop dressing like a beatnik and carry yourself like the successful businesswoman you are. Stop getting haircuts because you saw it in a magazine if it doesn’t work with YOUR face. Hit that gym on a regular basis. Do whatever you have to do to catch a guy’s eye, because if you don’t…..

There are 210,819 women ready to steal YOUR man. :D

DatingGenius

151 Responses to “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”

  1. Derek says:

    Love this topic. But, one thing to ask?

    “Single” could be “single by choice”. May not mean “eligible” or “available.” Are you saying that ALL those gorgeous women I seen when I lived on the EastCoast were “available”?

    But, this article could explain the “Sex in the City” show.

  2. Bill Cammack says:

    Good point, Derek… about “single by choice”. However, that makes it a guy’s responsibility to make the woman choose HIM over being single.

    Also, her being single doesn’t mean a guy can’t get on. It just means you still don’t have a so-called “relationship” with her after doing the deed. :)

    As far as “Sex and the City” (the series, not the movie), Carrie’s problem was that she was chasing “Mr. Big” but never realized she was expendable. NYC is the capitol of the planet. :D We probably have women from every single country here, hahaha

    It’s one thing for her to get him to mess with her. It’s an entirely different ballgame to try to get him to NOT mess with other chicks. Having money, looks and opportunity, why should he choose?

  3. Liz says:

    Hey, the chicks look good in LA LOL.

    Odd tho, I get way more raps in NYC than I do in LA. It should be the other way around, right? Maybe the NYC heads sense my Cali glow.

  4. Derek says:

    Alas, Bill, I brought sand to the beach when I lived in NJ. I’ll just have to take your words for it. ;-)

    Women have to be tougher to live in the east coast than the west. Maybe they like the challange of getting men also.

  5. […] good looking girls per capita… it’s merely by population density. As I mentioned in the women’s guide to NYC dating, NYC happens to be THE PLACE TO BE with an excess of females to the tune of 210,820 more single […]

  6. […] Read this awesome post by Bill Cammack on a Woman’s Guide to NYC. […]

  7. Ian Jenkins says:

    Awesome article. It’s a shame though, because I know nobody will use that great advice :)

  8. Bill Cammack says:

    Thanks Ian. :)

    ‘Tis true. Around here, the song remains the same. Supply and demand is not in the women’s favor around here, but a lot of them still act like it is. It’s only *their* loss when guys don’t want to kick it with them because of how they carry themselves.

    PS – Thanks, Lindsey, for the reblog haha ;)

    • susan says:

      alot of us act like it is perhaps, because we know we deserve better than what is out here. Is that a tone of resentment and ego that I detect, dear writer?

      • Bill Cammack says:

        Fascinating question, Susan. :)

        Resentment about what?.. My point is that I’m the beneficiary of the guy-to-girl ratio in this town. My point is that I never have to deal with females’ lame attitudes because I just eject them and hang out with other gals. My point is that the only women I remain in contact with are those that I’ve found to be worthwhile, personality-wise. So there’s nothing for The Kid to be resentful about because I’m gaining nothing but benefits from this situation.

        As far as Ego, I don’t think it’s egotistical to say that women miss out on spending time with the FEW better guys in this town because their personalities don’t pass muster. There are lots of lesser guys that are willing to deal with attitudes and jerk-like behavior so they can get laid.

        The point to this entire article is that if you come here (or, in your case, were born here) and think that you’re going to have some fantastic dating life because you’re hawt, it’s just not the truth. There are millions of women in this town, meaning there are hundreds of thousands of attractive women and all a guy really needs is ONE. The odds are stacked against you from the giddyap, so what I’m tellin’ y’all is that the meek shall inherit the Earth, OR, those women with deserving personalities will receive the best attention from the best men.

        Unfortunately, the television show “the Real Housewives of New York City” makes it seem like a gal can be a jerk and some rich dude that isn’t actually attracted to women will marry you, pop out a couple of kids and send you on vacations around the world. I would say that’s NOT the model to attempt to emulate and the odds of a situation like that working out are a longshot at best.

        • sophia says:

          “Unfortunately, the television show “the Real Housewives of New York City” makes it seem like a gal can be a jerk and some rich dude that isn’t actually attracted to women will marry you, pop out a couple of kids and send you on vacations around the world. I would say that’s NOT the model to attempt to emulate and the odds of a situation like that working out are a longshot at best.”

          You know, the longer I am here, the more I realize that what you say is true for certain circles / parts of NYC and completely not for others. I have befriended a bunch of women in that upper class set (we’re talking multi-million dollar tribeca lofts, houses in the hamptons, etc) at my gym because I just like people & am a good listener. It’s quite interesting how many of them are not that attractive, don’t have great bodies, and don’t have really cool personalities.

          What they do have is the attitude I mentioned before — they honestly believe they’re amazing, either because they were raised to know that or because of the school they attended, or whatever. ALL of these women are married to very successful men, and I think they do it just by being in the same social circles as the guys and believing they deserve their attentions. After all, how many investment bankers or truly rich men marry supermodels or actresses? There are some, but it’s not the norm. Most of these very powerful men select for a wife a woman who is much plainer than that, so it’s definitely not just a looks thing. From my interactions at the gym, it’s not a personality thing either.

          • Bill Cammack says:

            I appreciate that comment, Sophia. I’m definitely not trying to convince anyone here of anything.. Just trying to explain how I see things so y’all can gain a different perspective on the scene, whether you believe what I’m saying or not and whether you believe that anyone else thinks anywhere near the way I describe things.

            You bring up an excellent point about that tRHoNYC-esque set. I’m watching the show, and I’m thinking “THAT chick is not good-looking”, “THAT chick does not have a good body”, “THAT chick had too much plastic surgery done and looks ridiculous, “THAT chick acts like a ******* small child or baby”, “THAT chick is a brat”, “THAT chick is a two-faced LIAR that will say whatever she has to say to appear middle-of-the-road and then turn around and talk yang behind everyone’s back”, on and on and on and on and on and I had never considered what the common denominator might have been. I think you JUST hit on it right THURRRR. :D

            I don’t know rich guys. I grew up with poor guys, like *BROKE*, like so broke that some of their PARENTS were on welfare, broke. That’s why it’s so easy for me to borrow dude’s chicks on a $0 budget. I’m part of a set of dudes that has ALWAYS gotten chicks for free. I don’t respect the Game of any dudes that get chicks using money, cars, fancy clothes or any other gimmicks. I consider that cheating, and they’re not pulling chicks by their own natural charisma.

            You’re right in what you said in another comment about my not having any particular long-term use for a chick. I bring that up because that’s one of the things (along with not actually hanging out with anyone rich) that blocked me from being able to see what you just mentioned.

            When I watch these shows, I’m like “WHY would someone keep a chick like THIS? \o/”. The now-obvious answer is that she has the requisite air about her to qualify for the position of “Wife”. If there’s one thing that they all have in common, it’s just what you said.. They ACT like they FEEL like they’re important. They act like they EXPECT you to RESPECT them. This has GOT to be a very important consideration for rich guys because they can’t afford to tarnish their family’s name by selecting the wrong woman to align themselves with AND to create more children bearing the family name.

            I can see, NOW.. That a chick being a jerk could easily be an external indication of what she feels her place is in society. This would be critical for when he introduces her to friends of his. This whole thing is SO FASCINATING!!! :D

            I do the same thing, to a degree. There are chicks that I won’t take ANYWHERE. AT. ALL. because I know they’re gonna “Show Their Ass” sooner rather than later and embarrass me for having introduced them to friends of mine. ‘Matter of fact, they’re basically ghosts. They don’t show up in my Social Media AT ALL and if you looked through my > 1,000 Facebook pictures, you’d think I didn’t even know them.

            However.. As you mentioned, this Jackass Technique will only work with guys that need a woman to have that jackass quality about her in order to qualify for his consideration. It often backfires when it’s used against other types of guys and becomes “I just wanna BANG this broad because she’s such a bitch! >:D”. Unfortunately for y’all, this mentality leads to the guy being NICER to y’all instead of meaner, specifically so he can get to the Bang The Broad part.

            So yes.. I can see “having an air of self-importance” being very useful to rich guys that are striving to select a wife, but you can be self-important without being a jerk. :) Refusing to be disrespected and insisting on being treated the way you feel you should is really good enough.

            The problem in the Average Joe situations, IMO, is that they’re not equipped to deal with those kinds of attitudes like it’s a positive thing. It’s going to be seen as nagging. Just about the only positive feature of that that I can guesstimate is that a guy might feel proud of himself for pulling a chick that was so “High & Mighty”. It’s like out of all the other guys that tried to get this sparkling gem of a female, he’s the only one that gets to stick it (so far as he knows).

            The way I see things, the Average Jane is WAY better off coming to the table as a cool, calm, collected, intelligent, witty, fun, knowledgeable, USEFUL human being. That way, even if she doesn’t get the nod to become a “date”, she’ll still get the recommendation if there’s another guy he knows that’s looking for a girl. She’ll still get the invite to tag along to parties and meet as many guys as she wants while she’s hanging out with him. She also gets to stay in the pocket (like a football quarterback) longer and potentially express what her merits are as far as why he should give her a chance to move up the hierarchy / totem pole.

            There are way too many girls around here that are just as attractive as the three girls they’re standing next to for average guys to want to put up with attitudes for more than the split second it takes them to detect it. If she’s FOYINE!!!, haha you know how THAT goes! \o/ He’s gonna tough it out as long as he can to see if he gets some, but given twins, for example, and one’s a jerk and the other one’s pleasant company, I think the pleasant one has the better chance every time of attracting a guy that’s looking for a quality woman.

            • sophia says:

              “However.. As you mentioned, this Jackass Technique will only work with guys that need a woman to have that jackass quality about her in order to qualify for his consideration.”

              These women aren’t jackasses. I don’t remember saying anything about that. Some are (like the ones on tv) I’m sure, and some aren’t. The common denominator isn’t being a bitch, it’s having self-confidence to know how they expect to be treated and demand only that treatment. Some have grown up with it and some have acquired the taste for it, I’m sure. They believe they’re worth trips to Cannes & platinum/diamonds and so they get it.

              “The problem in the Average Joe situations, IMO, is that they’re not equipped to deal with those kinds of attitudes like it’s a positive thing. It’s going to be seen as nagging. Just about the only positive feature of that that I can guesstimate is that a guy might feel proud of himself for pulling a chick that was so “High & Mighty”. It’s like out of all the other guys that tried to get this sparkling gem of a female, he’s the only one that gets to stick it (so far as he knows).”

              Nagging? How does high self esteem somehow translate into nagging? And I think it also works on regular guys too. My plain friend that I wrote about in the post “unattractive women” does great with the normal guys (they’re more normal-ish because we’re all pretty young — lawyers, investment bankers, etc) just by having this self-confident attitude. In any case, women shouldn’t be aiming for average joe. That’s my point. Women who truly have great self-confidence don’t get average men, they get amazing men. My plain friend proves this: she dates several levels above what she could normally get with her self-confidence alone. There’s something like this in the pickup world for the guys: your frame has to be stronger than the woman’s and she has to accept your view of the world. I think that’s something like what happens with my plain friend.

              Average Joe can’t handle a truly self-confident woman. Average Joe couldn’t date me, for example (on most days, I have my off days too). I’d eat him alive before breakfast — he’d subconsciously feel how I felt about myself and be very insecure all the time.

              One thing I don’t like about this advice on the blog in general is it’s very defeatist for women — it’s like saying “the cards are stacked against you, so be perfect or else men are going to leave you for the next hottest thing.” Guess what? If you believe that, you’re going to be constantly insecure and that’s exactly what’s going to happen. However, if you spend some of that time you would’ve spent trying to be perfect on believing you’re perfect, it seems like you get results.

              The women I’ve seen at my gym know what’s up — they’re bitchy or needy or whatever, definitely not perfect, but the guys put up with it because they really, really like themselves. They think he’s not going to do better elsewhere and so he believes it too.

              Everyone knows that guy who has a horrible girlfriend and everyone’s like, why does he put up with it? What does he see in her? She’s not even that cute. She really likes herself, that’s why he puts up with it. It usually falls apart when he discovers she’s been faking her self-esteem. Otherwise, these guys marry those girls.

              • Bill Cammack says:

                The common denominator isn’t being a bitch, it’s having self-confidence to know how they expect to be treated and demand only that treatment.

                I addressed this *directly* in the same reply you’re replying to when I said “So yes.. I can see “having an air of self-importance” being very useful to rich guys that are striving to select a wife, but you can be self-important without being a jerk. :) Refusing to be disrespected and insisting on being treated the way you feel you should is really good enough.”

                I see where you’re coming from that you’re saying “confidence” is the key factor, but I’m saying it has to be more than that. Not necessarily being a jerk. I think being a brat is a byproduct of having power without empathy. Here’s an example from the show..

                This countess chick was introduced to a limo driver. The guy reaches out to shake her hand and she refuses to touch him. She later explains something to the effect of countesses don’t shake hands with the help, or car drivers or whatever she explained.

                To her, that’s an example of her maintaining her position and breeding. To me, that’s being conceited or “stuck up”.

                Similarly, if I go to a party, I’m not likely to approach a female that I perceive to be unattractive. That’s not really by CHOICE, but rather because it naturally doesn’t occur to me. To some people, that’s being conceited or “stuck up”.

                So.. If I were to accept your “confidence” theory, there are a lot more confident women that would be married or in satisfying relationships. That’s why I believe (with the limited amount of thought I’ve given the concept since YOU brought it to my attention yesterday) that it has to be a level of defensiveness of position. How embarrassed would you be as a count to find out that your woman shook hands with the lowly car driver? :O

                This is one of the MYRIAD reasons guys don’t want to date women that they perceive as hoes. They think that a woman getting around sexually before she has any verbal commitments with a guy to be faithful to him negates her mental ability to honor an agreement she makes with him to be his girlfriend or wife and stop hooking up with other guys.

                I’m saying that there has to be some kind of expectation of these rich wives OTHER than them having self-confidence because she has to be a representative of himself AND his family name. I have to assume that she has to have not only an air of confidence, but also something internally aggressive that indicates that she’s not going to fold under pressure.

                The *one* thing I can give all those tRHoNYC ladies is that they strive incessantly to keep up appearances. Whether they’re clearly right, wrong or NUTSO, they hold the line and act as if they’re right and whomever else is wrong. Meanwhile, if you scroll back through the seasons, there are instances of at least three of the husbands talking to their wives using baby-talk because they’re running their mouths about nothing and he knows it and she doesn’t. It’s some kind of relationship issue where they form a unit and part of her job description is to carry herself a certain way towards the public and know whose hand to shake and who to turn their nose up at.

                Aside from that, I see what you’re saying about the women knowing what they’re “worth” and getting it. I agree with that for ANYONE. :) If you know what you’re worth and you can get it, nice life! :D If you know what you’re worth and can’t get it, lower your standards or become OK with being single. If you don’t know what you’re worth, figure it out.

                High Self-Esteem does *NOT* translate into nagging. I was talking about being a jerk because nobody ever told these chicks to calm down and kept trying to buy them so they feel entitled to everything under the Sun.

                A couple of points about your “plain” friend. She might exude sensuality or sexuality, like Christine mentioned somewhere yesterday. She might also be clearly down for sex, which is going to get her a lot more raps. She might not be in the best physical shape, but might have a proportion that turns guys on and energizes them when they’re around her. There are a million things that might explain your “plain” friend getting raps. OTOH, she might be as plain as you say, and her personality’s winning the situations for her.

                In any case, women shouldn’t be aiming for average joe.

                wow. That’s deep right THURRRR. :) There goes the 80/20! (80% of the women trying to hook up with the top 20% of the men, and vice versa). Now if you want to hear about guys getting UPSET over the dating scene, THAT’S what’s going to make them mad! :D

                I addressed that in http://billcammack.com/2008/02/17/life-isnt-fair/ , that guys aren’t ENTITLED to girlfriends or really anything at all. \o/ You’re right that the same way guys want to kick it to the hawtest chicks, women should be going for the top guys they can get their hands on, pull & retain. “Retaining” being the toughest part, of course.

                Excellent points that Average Joe is intimidated by self-confident women. That’s because men like to feel “better” than their girlfriends and that’s tough to do when she’s taller than you, makes more money than you, is better at Jiu-Jitsu than you, hahaha :D Women that feel superior should aim at hooking up with superior men.

                One thing I don’t like about this advice on the blog in general is it’s very defeatist for women — it’s like saying “the cards are stacked against you, so be perfect or else men are going to leave you for the next hottest thing.”

                I can almost agree with your assessment. My point to women is that getting a guy to have sex with her is easy. Getting him to put her on the roster of his several girlfriends isn’t very tough if she’s bringing quality to the table. Getting him to cease & desist with all his other girls and commit to her is incredibly tough and if women go into this with the fairytale notion that there’s someone for everyone, they’ll end up with a man by sheer luck. They will also lose that man as inexplicably as they corralled him.

                Personally, I know how stacked the deck is AGAINST women achieving what they want, especially in the saturated NYC market where there are packs of 3 and 4 women hanging out by themselves doing nothing in the streets between restaurants & bars. That’s my whole point. The Game isn’t what you think it is and it’s CERTAINLY not what you were told about in your childhood fairy tales.

                Do the right people meet the right people? Sometimes.. And it’s magical and fortunate and lovely when that happens. Other times, it’s people making do with what’s available to them.. Dating the best person they know at the time.. Dating people they know they’re not going to any higher levels with.

                Everybody tries to treat their relationships like they’re equal and they’re not. One person’s definition of “I have a girlfriend” is that there’s a chick he has sex with every other week and doesn’t see much other than that. Someone else’s version is that he spends every other day with a gal and never has sex with her at all.

                As much confidence as a woman has, if she never goes to the right places where the type of men she wants to meet congregate, it’ll be PURE LUCK if she meets someone she’s naturally compatible with. While she’s banking on fate, there are chicks doing what needs to be done to get the attention of the same guys she’s hoping are going to fall into her lap.

                I’m not saying that women need to be perfect.. I’m saying that women need to recognize that some guys buy wedding bands and put them on their fingers WITHOUT. BEING. MARRIED. EVAR. because they know that some chicks are mentally wired to throw sex at married guys. I’m saying that there are processes that are working against you that you don’t even understand.

                In a perfect world.. In MY perfect world, there WOULD be someone for everyone and people would be able to attain and retain whatever format of relationship that they wanted in life….. Being that that’s not the case, you either recognize The Game or you don’t and you either come equipped or take your chances with self-preparation and pot luck whether what you want is ever going to happen for you at all.

                PS – Guys put up with horrible girlfriends because they like the head.

                • sophia says:

                  This countess chick was introduced to a limo driver. The guy reaches out to shake her hand and she refuses to touch him. She later explains something to the effect of countesses don’t shake hands with the help, or car drivers or whatever she explained.

                  That woman is an exception rather than the rule — and the other women on the show hate her for her behavior. Again, this isn’t something that defines these women. It’s an individual personality trait. You actually have watched the show, right? They’re always getting on the countess for her definitions of “class” since most of them don’t subscribe to it.

                  “So.. If I were to accept your “confidence” theory, there are a lot more confident women that would be married or in satisfying relationships. That’s why I believe (with the limited amount of thought I’ve given the concept since YOU brought it to my attention yesterday) that it has to be a level of defensiveness of position.”

                  There aren’t a lot of confident people in general, and there are even less truly confident women for a variety of reasons: society pressures us to be “modest” and downplay our achievements, media makes everyone insecure unless they are 6’0 and 100 pounds and 20 years old, and because women’s main method of getting men is attractiveness, there’s not much they can do if they are born ugly (as opposed to a man, who can just make more money or get more status in another way).

                  “Part of her job description is to carry herself a certain way towards the public and know whose hand to shake and who to turn their nose up at.”
                  Obviously. Much of the upper class is about exclusion from the group. But it’s like this everywhere. Everyone is like this at some level — men don’t seek women for relationships who they think are unattractive and women don’t date below their level either. You were talking about women who you won’t take anywhere because they’ll show their ass or whatever. Same thing.

                  “If you know what you’re worth and can’t get it, lower your standards or become OK with being single.”
                  I don’t think this happens to most people who truly believe in what they’re worth.

                  “A couple of points about your “plain” friend. She might exude sensuality or sexuality, like Christine mentioned somewhere yesterday. She might also be clearly down for sex, which is going to get her a lot more raps. She might not be in the best physical shape, but might have a proportion that turns guys on and energizes them when they’re around her. There are a million things that might explain your “plain” friend getting raps. OTOH, she might be as plain as you say, and her personality’s winning the situations for her.”

                  None of those things are true. She doesn’t have sex outside a committed relationship & she exudes fun much more than sexuality. I’m aware enough to know the difference. She also has a body type that I’ve never really seen most white guys go for (overweightish, small boobs, large thighs, small ass), but they go for her. When asked to explain it, all they can say is “she’s hot.” But she’s not physically hot — guys looking at just her photo without being in her presence say she’s a DUFF. She does have a good personality, but so do a lot of plain women who don’t get nearly the same attention that she does. What are the other things it could be? I mean, I really am curious.

                  “wow. That’s deep right THURRRR. :) There goes the 80/20! (80% of the women trying to hook up with the top 20% of the men, and vice versa). Now if you want to hear about guys getting UPSET over the dating scene, THAT’S what’s going to make them mad! :D”

                  Your whole blog is a reality check for women, right? I’m sorry that one little comment would make men so mad, but that’s the reality. Women don’t actually want to date average joe. They’ll settle for him, sure, but they always want someone with more status, who makes more money, etc. I think if they aimed higher and then settled for average joe if they couldn’t get him, they would retain average joe much easier with a very self-confident attitude.

                  “As much confidence as a woman has, if she never goes to the right places where the type of men she wants to meet congregate, it’ll be PURE LUCK if she meets someone she’s naturally compatible with. While she’s banking on fate, there are chicks doing what needs to be done to get the attention of the same guys she’s hoping are going to fall into her lap.”

                  Right, but where is the advice on your blog for where these women need to go to meet these men? A lot of what you write is just telling women how dumb they are for believing lies, but not really giving any advice on how to spot these lies in the first place or how to be better in general. THAT would be much more helpful. The way your blog stands now, again, is pretty defeatist.

                  “PS – Guys put up with horrible girlfriends because they like the head.”

                  Sorry, wrong again. I know one guy (who has dated plenty of attractive, nice women) who put up with a horrible girlfriend who didn’t have sex with him for long periods — months — when she was mad. He married her. Sometimes the bitches just know how to hold it down.

                • Bill Cammack says:

                  Agreed on “Egregious societal pressure on women to attain and maintain impossibly high standards”.

                  Interesting point about lack of confident people in general. I’ll have to think about the concept of feeling unconfident. I don’t personally have lack of confidence, however I know what it feels like to be shut out of the opportunity to throw my hat in the ring, I know what it feels like to know that this chick is going to require more work than the eventual outcome is going to be worth, and I know what it feels like to know that for the type of people both of us are, I’m not bringing anything to the table that she needs right now. That’s all more cost/value analysis than lack of confidence.

                  As far as the “How she carries herself in public” part, I think it’s more important for someone with a bunch of other snobs scrutinizing their choices in life to select a woman with particular character traits than it is for a guy who can just go “\o/ **** it. I enjoy hooking up with her” and the fellaz will nod in agreement.. That agreement being that sometimes, you have to put up with crazy chicks to get what you want out of life.

                  It’s like hiring for a job. If you’re hiring an executive secretary, she needs to look and carry herself differently than a gal you hire to work in the mailroom that nobody’s ever going to see and if they DO see her and she looks “tore up from the floor up”, you get to say “Yeah, she works for my company, but \o/ **** it.. She works in the mailroom” and everyone will nod in agreement.

                  Yeah.. You pretty much wrecked your homegirl in that description! HAHAHA :D It seems like her forte is “fun”, which is a good thing because there are so many chicks that are bland as hell and have no personality whatsoever that it’s often refreshing to be around a self-starter, someone with her own interesting insights and conversation. Janeane Garofalo plays her looks down all the time, but who wouldn’t invite her out for drinks? You know SOMETHING funny’s gonna happen! :D

                  I see where you could feel like my blog is a reality check for women. My blog is about dating in general. I balance my post for Da Fellaz with posts geared towards the ladies in an attempt to have something for everybody. Life is actually way easier for me if y’all never wake up and keep falling for the same basic Game. *yawn* It’s also more boring, so it’s been fun for me to participate in the conversations like this one that jump off from my articles.

                  I wasn’t disputing your “Average Joe” comment. I think you’re on-point about that.

                  I fully intend for the next article I write to be actually good dating tips for women, and I intend for that to be tonight.

              • susan says:

                exactly

              • susan says:

                exactly sophia

        • susan says:

          ” millions of women in this town, meaning there are hundreds of thousands of attractive women and all a guy really needs is ONE.”

          You just said in many different posts that all men want is sex and don’t feel attachment or human emotions. So why would he want only one? That doesn’t make any sense.

          • susan says:

            If…we have nothing to hope for, no possibility of monogamy or safety, no happiness, strung along on a pathetic pipe dream of love that doesn’t exist, and spend our lives afraid this dbag we settled for anyway is going to cheat on us, and *this* is what we are supposed to be working hard for, to look good and have wonderful personalities for? Is *this* what we are working so hard for? I mean are you serious? WTF is the point again? So some pathetic dbag can treat us badly and forget where our fucking clitorises (clitori?) are?

            *head explodes*

            • Bill Cammack says:

              “Sophia”‘s inspired me to write some good tips for women instead of screaming “Y’ALL ARE IDIOTS” all the time. Hopefully, I’ll be able to do that by this afternoon. :)

          • Bill Cammack says:

            I see where my statement is vague. Thanks for asking about this, Susan. Let me be more specific. :)

            Unless you’re specifically into twosomes or threesomes, you’re only going to have sex with one woman at a time.

            In a city with millions of women in it, if a gal isn’t interested in you, it’s actually way faster to bail out and meet someone new than it is to change the mind of a woman that’s not currently feeling physically attracted to you.

            In the sticks, there are only like 12 gals available at all and no turnover so you’re stuck with Betty Sue, Fannie Mae and whomever else went to your local high school as far as dates/mates. That’s the environment where crabby girls can get their Game on because the guys don’t have any options of more compatible/interested women to date.

            So my point about “One Woman” doesn’t pertain to Long-Term Relationships, but rather to when the search stops. When a guy has what he wants, he goes offline for the evening or however long he concentrates on the gal he’s hooking up with. That’s important for NYC women to recognize because it’s not like the country-based wooing process. Unless a guy sees something extraordinary in a gal (which I claim is Personality), there’s no reason he wouldn’t be dating several women.. AND.. If he’s the type of person that’s LOOKING FOR one woman to date long-term and perhaps marry, then you have to find him before he finds another girl that fits the bill.

            There are so many women offering LTRs that the guys that want them go offline and STAY offline, leaving the male dating pool populated by serial monogamists and/or professional sharks.

            “One Woman” refers to the amount of competition that a gal has in this city for the attention of that ONE man that they’re all trying to get.

      • Callie says:

        @ Susan,

        From a woman’s point of view, I would probably rephrase your comment to say “a lot of us act like it is perhaps, because we THINK we deserve better than what is out here.” There are lots of us out there with these huge lists of what kind of guy we want and think we deserve but many of us aren’t the type of girls that those kind of men want. I think this sort of thing was mentioned in the pecking order post. I remember watching some day time talk show about single women and this lady in the audience PULLED OUT A WRITTEN LIST with things like he has to be a billionaire and yadda yadda. I swear highlight of the show was the guest expert stopped her and asked “Do YOU have what a millionaire, much less a billionaire is looking for?” Note, to be politically correct, the woman was “horizontally gifted” first and foremost, was wearing an unflattering outfit, did not carry herself like a lady, etc. After that response, she and her friend sat down and shut up with the quickness!

        Some women are delusional plain and simple. A woman who really KNOWS what she is worth (aka confident and content) will not cop a defensive and demanding attitude with men, much less anyone. That attitude I believe comes from a place of insecurity and projection rather than genuine confidence. Ya remember Aesop’s fable about the fox and the sour grapes?

        • Bill Cammack says:

          “There are lots of us out there with these huge lists of what kind of guy we want and think we deserve but many of us aren’t the type of girls that those kind of men want.”

          Preach.

          Some women are delusional plain and simple. A woman who really KNOWS what she is worth (aka confident and content) will not cop a defensive and demanding attitude with men, much less anyone.

          What you just said is the building block or foundation to *ANY* rap situation.

          Guys and Gals can’t get upset when they’re not up to par to be chosen by the type of person they want to date, yet, they get upset anyway.

          This comes from the brainwashing that there’s someone for everyone, and that everybody deserves a great boyfriend or girlfriend.

          Neither one of those statements is true.

          Self-Improvement is the key. If you want to bag a billionaire, be the type of person a billionaire would want to associate him/herself with in the first place, so you can at least be on The Roster, and then make strides to lock that person down, so maybe you end up in an exclusive relationship with them.

          The problem with what these people are thinking is that the person to your left and to your right are thinking exactly the same thing, and there simply aren’t enough billionaires (or, even good boyfriends or girlfriends) to go around.

          • susan says:

            “This comes from the brainwashing that there’s someone for everyone, and that everybody deserves a great boyfriend or girlfriend.”

            Irrational statement. You’re such a typically illogical left-wing ideologue. Keep sowing your message…it’s not catching because it’s already swallowed everything.

            • Bill Cammack says:

              ok.. Feel free to explain how “There’s someone for everyone” is a true statement. :) It isn’t.

              It’s not a fact. It’s not true. It’s not valid. It’s a fantasy. I don’t know how else to inform you of this.

              There’s no Santa Claus. Sorry.

              I’m not trying to be funny about this. What I’m saying is that when people believe in something that doesn’t exist, it leads them to get upset when they can’t make it happen for themselves. In fact, the people that achieve devoted relationships are the lucky ones.

              Besides that, the cheating and divorce rates have consistently hovered around 50%, so half of the people that THINK they’re in monogamous relationships that are going to last for the rest of their lives, aren’t.

              If you can’t get that, you can’t see the playing field. If you can’t see the field, you can’t play the game.

              Feel free to enlighten me if you believe otherwise. :D

              • Susan says:

                Well here’s another response to your long response, again thanks…

                “Feel free to explain how “There’s someone for everyone” is a true statement. :) It isn’t.”

                I can’t prove gravity or evolution, no one can. There is just a heck alot of evidence for it and no reasonable alternative theory. Can you prove that this is false? But I also explained in my other comment why it’s about the individual choices that people make that can make them wind up alone and not match up with anyone..it also has alot to do with the problems inherent in society. Eventually a good, mature person seeking a relationship *should* in a sane environment (not NYC) be able to find a good, mature person seeking a relationship even if that person isn’t everything they wanted- but the trouble is that if someone really is crazy enough to expect their mental laundry list of traits to be fulfilled, even if they’re near-perfect themselves and fulfill all those traits, they’re really not that mature or good to begin with. Someone who isn’t narcissistic and has a capacity to give freely should be able to find someone who is enough to make them at least content.

                “the people that achieve devoted relationships are the lucky ones.”

                Not necessarily- a devoted relationship could mean alot of codependence or even abuse. If you had said healthy and devoted, I’d agree.

                I’d also make the argument that there aren’t, unfortunately, that *many* people with the capacity to be devoted or mature or intelligent or all those things that make them catches really to begin with, which is a continuation of the point I was making earlier. Most good guys, as much as they want looks, also, honestly do look for other traits, and this is just my opinion from what I’ve seen and gathered from alot of guy friends and brothers and boyfriends… traits like honesty, loyalty, trustworthiness, dignity, class, intelligence- men are generally less impressed by your PhD than wisdom or passion or ability to argue- nurturingness- alot is that that sort of corny feminine stuff that society has been telling us doesn’t matter or is bad…well yeah that’s the stuff most guys tend to like.

                “the cheating and divorce rates have consistently hovered around 50%, so half of the people that THINK they’re in monogamous relationships that are going to last for the rest of their lives, aren’t.”

                Yeah but the intelligence, character and perspective and morality rates are a bit less than that, so I’m betting those who stay monogamously married are among that group. My boyfriend and I may have a good chance at something like that since we both seem to have the traits necessary to not cheat and stay married, things like loving being around eachother and appreciating al the aspects of the other person, getting jealous easily, being giving and thoughtful, being on the naturally monogamous side, the capacity to be somewhat altruistic, understanding things are never perfect, having common interests and values, having good characters, having a unique yet similar perspective on life etc.

                Different strokes for different folks. I feel bad for those people deluded that they have so much (like the hot rich guy who doesn’t invest much time into them) when they’re actually *willing* to settle for so much less.

                Also. I NEVER played the game. I know that’s why I have something worthwhile now, because I knew I deserved it.

        • susan says:

          “A woman who really KNOWS what she is worth (aka confident and content) will not cop a defensive and demanding attitude with men, much less anyone. ”

          Well duh. But the trouble with this old trope is that it presupposes that women are not in an awful place socially and romantically, one filled with constant pain and yearning that men will never know. It also presupposes that women are SUPPOSED to be confident and assured DESPITE this (of course, we ‘don’t need a man’, right?), as somehow proof of our strength. I am so. damn. tired. of this feminist bullshit telling us that we need to prove ourselves and be this and be that instead of fighting to make the world more equitable, and speaking out for it. I feel that men (used to) place far fewer demands on us than feminism does today.

          Read the studies. Women today are MISERABLE. And those are the ones who barely care. For those of us who do it’s a different story. I’m an ex model and I consider suicide every day. All I ever wanted was to be loved and I can’t get near a relationship despite looking for one for 35 years.

          Way more miserable than in the 50s.

          I hope you stick to your pathetic feminist propaganda and continue giving abusive men everything they want…eventually this can not possibly lead to anything except total extinction of the family and therefore complete hedonism, narcissism and social breakdown.

          I hope I have no descendants to fiddle while America burns.

          • Callie says:

            Susan,

            What’s with the hostility?

            First, I am not a Feminist…never was and never will be. I actually take pleasure in popping holes in some of the cow-poop some Feminists like to peddle. I am also a woman of color so Feminism as it is does not speak for me or represent the values, concerns, and goals that are important to me. I grew up in a traditional non-Christian home and I cherish the models of womanhood that my great-grand mother and my grand-mother set for me.(My mom got caught up in that Feminist cow-poop… divorced and miserable now. ’nuff said.) But at the same time I also enjoy the freedoms that I can enjoy as a modern woman with regard to my relationships and sexuality.

            Secondly, every individual, men AND women, should value themselves independently from whomever and whatever. As a woman of color I am bombarded with messaged everyday that I am at a disadvantage because I am not white…but I saw whatever, I know I’m a great person, and damn cute too! If someone isn’t going to date me because I’m not white, sucks for him because he’s missing out on getting to know a great person, and good for me because it weeds out some of the ass-clowns automatically.

            When I was younger (lol, I’m barely even 30!) I used to be miserable because I was trying to hard to jump hoops and be what I dated wanted rather than just being me. However, due to a major life event, I ended up putting my self in therapy and took the opportunity to really work on my self-esteem and abandonment issues. Now I can say, “If you don’t like me, then there’s the door” because dating and relationships should be FUN. Yeah, they take work like everything else, but in the end it should be for fun, not because you need someone else to make you feel good about yourself.

            Mantra — YES,WOMEN NEED MEN AND MEN NEED WOMEN, BUT NOT TO MAKE THEM FEEL COMPLETE AS A PERSON.

            Thirdly, women are not in a god-awful place.”Studies” can be portrayed to support anything.Women need to learn how to identify the ass-clowns that Feminism has spawned out into the world and learn how to stop trying to be men and how to use the power of femininity. I think that right there is REAL feminism! Many of us women tend choose to and chase the crappy men. Plain and simple. Yeah, society puts us in a crappy situation at times but we still have the power of chose to make the most of the situation.

            Fourthly, there’s more to being attractive than looks. Personality does count. With regard to a “more than just a piece of ass” relationships, it matters more than people think. Waking up in 30 years to a wrinkly face wearing a scowl is much worse than waking up to a wrinkly face wearing a smile.

            Fifthly, If you are saying “I’m an ex model and I consider suicide every day. All I ever wanted was to be loved and I can’t get near a relationship despite looking for one for 35 years.” I don’t really think you are in the right place emotionally to be in any kind of a relationship. I personally think instead of searching for someone to make you feel loved that you maybe should consider taking some time, shifting focus, and showing yourself some love. I am sure Bill and the other men can say that an unstated must have or no-dice necessity is that a woman (and a man)needs to be emotionally healthy (especially for a serious relationship).

            Woman to woman, on a complete aside independent from men dating and what ever, I am concerned that you say that everyday you think about commuting suicide. I think that you need to seek out some professional help/support to help you through whatever you have been feeling/going through.

            • Callie says:

              Correction —

              “When I was younger (lol, I’m barely even 30!) I used to be miserable because I was trying too hard to jump hoops and be what I thought the men I dated wanted rather than just being me.”

            • susan says:

              blah blah blah. You completely missed all my points.

              Bill and the other men make a point of how talking about how little women are to them, and he has spoken consistently throughout months on this blog negatively towards women’s needs with a very mocking and derisive tone.he consistently laughs at women who are clearly suffering, while getting everything he wants from them. And then brags about it. New York city is a disgusting hellhole, and it turns out, that alot of people feel this way. But that’s emotionally healthy right? No scorn for him.

              You say that women must be emotionally healthy esp. for a serious relationship, well have you thought that statement through logically? Wy should someone need to be more healthy for a SERIOUS relationship (which means more stable, reliable, softer to fall) than a NON serious one, full of pitfalls and unpleasant surprises and a constant feeling of being used or just toyed with?
              It’s exactly the opposite. This is the problem with people today, there is simply very little rational thought given to the arguments used to bolster their own individual, emotionally based, personal, socially popular viewpoints in a very polemical, dichotomous fashion.

              In order words, whatever. Our society is complete horseshit. You’ll all love it a century down the line when sex is obsolete, procreation occurs only in labs, the genders are divided in every social endeavor and men are banging super-realistic perfect 10 androids.

            • Bill Cammack says:

              I was going to try to stay out of this excellent discussion y’all are having, but since my name got dragged into this, I’m back!!! >:D

              First of all.. I’m sorry you’re having a poor time right now, Susan. Honestly.

              I hope that situation changes for you, ASAP, and you start enjoying and loving life.

              Second.. I agree with you that women are miserable. My belief about why y’all ARE miserable is that you’re trying to live into a fantasy that never existed in the first place.

              I’m 5’9″. If someone had told me from the day I was born that I was destined to play in the NBA, I would be miserable right now. I have ZERO skillz or ability that would have put me even on my HIGH SCHOOL basketball team, much less college, and much less in the pros.

              I’m also not an astronaut. If someone had told me from day 01 that I was destined to walk on the moon, I’d be miserable right now.

              This was my point about the brainwashing of “There’s someone for everyone”. There isn’t. It’s just a fact. History has shown this, and the future will continue to prove it.

              Y’all are discussing mental health… It’s not healthy to send girls (who become young ladies and then women) out into the world with the belief that a) they’re definitely going to get into some kind of fantastic, one-on-one relationship, and that b) if they don’t, their life wasn’t worth anything.

              It’s not healthy. It’s a setup. All those baby dolls and ovens they gave you to play with as a kid were part of the setup…. As a guy, I was never trained ONE. DAY. IN. MY. LIFE. to take care of a kid or throw a tea party. I don’t know how to change a diaper to this very day, because it’s not a relevant life skill. I don’t have any kids, so it’s not my problem. I might deal with it, BEGRUDGINGLY, if I ever had kids, but I wasn’t set up for that life. I don’t think it’s fun. I was playing baseball and football while your baby doll was wetting itself and you were being set up.

              My main point in posting ANYTHING that might be of use to women is that I’m hoping y’all will WAKE UP and live your own lives, whatever those turn out to be, instead of trying to live into the dream that never existed to begin with… I already know all this stuff. I don’t have to type it and send it to the internet. It’s common sense to me. My hope (and this is sporadically confirmed to me by female readers) is that y’all can read this stuff and get a broader view of the ACTUAL playing field, so you can understand what just happened to you and make informed decisions about how you’re going to move forward with your lives and your love lives.

              “Bill and the other men make a point of how talking about how little women are to them, and he has spoken consistently throughout months on this blog negatively towards women’s needs with a very mocking and derisive tone.”

              Again.. My goal in posts that I write that are focused on women’s issues is to open your eyes to reality.

              I’m not making this stuff up myself. This isn’t fiction. I’m not speculating. I’m talking about what people have actually said and done, or what I’VE actually said and done.

              One of the reasons why women ARE so miserable is that y’all don’t understand what’s really going on. It’s not in ANYBODY’S interest to inform you of what some guys are actually thinking… Because of this, women are usually confused when their relationships fall apart or they can’t turn FWB into a LTR.

              If the only examples you have of what men think is buying y’all flowers and candy and saying we’re wrong when we know we’re right, you’ll never be able to understand why a relationship went south or never got started at all.

              I would say that if you detect a “mocking and derisive tone” in what I have to say about “women’s needs”, it’s because y’all bore me to death with how easily you’re led to do whatever men want with some simple, meaningless words.

              If I want to get laid, all I have to do is tell a gal “I love you”, and it’s all over. You think that’s FUN for me? :D .. You think that’s interesting? You think it’s a challenge? I don’t have to love you at all, but if I say it, you’ll believe it, because you want to believe it, because you were trained to believe it from when you were a little girl.

              “Hard to get” and “I’m not that type of girl” and “I don’t know you well enough yet” and everything else goes right out the window when y’all believe a guy “loves” you, which is easily faked… I can’t express a respectful tone about something that I know isn’t real, and that y’all fall for like dominoes, every single day.

              I think that “Women’s Needs” are to be self-sufficient as far as love and self-esteem is concerned… What a guy thinks of you doesn’t actually matter at all. Whether a guy is willing to exclusively have sex with you doesn’t matter at all. Whether a guy’s willing to marry you doesn’t matter at all… Once you realize this, it doesn’t lead to your thinking that you don’t need a man, but it’s a healthier foundation for you to stand on and SELECT a man to be with that recognizes you and appreciates you for the qualities you’re bringing to the table.

              “He consistently laughs at women who are clearly suffering, while getting everything he wants from them. And then brags about it.”

              I’m sorry it comes off to you as “laughing at women who are suffering”, but I see how you could feel that way about it, and I’m willing to own that statement.

              Like I said before.. I don’t have to write about any of this stuff at all. It’s textbook. I can do this all day and all night. There’s nothing to pulling women, because y’all fall for the same tricks every day. I’m writing for YOUR benefit, so discussions like this might take place and people might learn something.

              Sure, it’s to my benefit too, because the smarter women get, the more interesting the playing field becomes for me. >:D .. Mostly, my point is that y’all aren’t seeing correctly and have fallen for the okey-doke, and won’t have a better time in the dating game until you wake up and realize what’s really going on.

              Yes, I get everything I want.. Not from all women, but from enough of them for my own personal satisfaction. Yes, it’s easy for me, and I’m bored because women fall for easily-spun fantasies instead of focusing on reality.

              What I’m hoping y’all take away from these discussions is that it’s not all flowers & candy in the dating game. Some women object to even CALLING dating “a game”, but it most definitely is.

              I was just talking to a friend last night, who was telling me about this chick that had been frontin’ on him for a while and then finally gave it up. Textbook. *YAWN*.. All that time she wasted, with the end result being having sex with him, like he and I knew damned well was going to happen.

              She had to go through her stages of “Don’t want to look like a slut” and “What will he think of me?” and “I don’t want to be judged” and “Where is this relationship going?” and “Are we exclusive”, blah blah blah.. Meanwhile, we just watch y’all run around in unnecessary circles until you finally calm down and get with the program that you always wanted from the first time you felt attracted to us.

              It would be better if women just said “Im a grown-ass woman, I’m going to have sex with whomever I feel like, whenever I feel like it” and get to the point. THAT would be respectable. As it stands, we mostly have to babysit y’all 30- and 50-year old women until you finally come around.

              It’s laughable because it’s all fake. Wake up.

              “New York city is a disgusting hellhole, and it turns out, that alot of people feel this way. But that’s emotionally healthy right? No scorn for him.”

              The thing is, it’s fine if you feel scorn for me. In fact, if it makes your life better, I’m willing and able to carry that for you.

              If hating on me causes you to get involved with better relationships and live in a more fulfilling way, I’m all for it. :)

              I meet new women every week. I can afford to lose every single girlfriend I currently have, and start all over, fresh, as soon as I press “submit” on this comment. This is why I can afford to tell you the truth.

              Lying to you would make you feel better, yet send you out into the world similarly ill-equipped to deal with your next relationship. I’d be adding to the problem and not the solution.

              The solution, IMO, is for women to recognize the game and decide whether y’all want to play it or not. I could be wrong about that. It’s possible that women need to believe in the fantasy to enjoy dating at all. \o/

              As far as procreation only occurring in labs, I wrote about that three years ago, back in 2008 => http://billcammack.com/2008/02/03/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it/

              As far as NYC being a hellhole for women who are looking to get involved in a monogamous LTR, I say it’s better to recognize that, feel sour about it briefly, then put together a gameplan to get what you want out of life, instead of hoping against hope that something’s going to change when every woman in the same subway car with you is trying to achieve the same thing you are, and guys know that we can take our time choosing or never choose at all.

              • Susan says:

                Hi Bill, well thanks for the long response.

                Just to let you know, back in about February a few months after having moved (as a life-long new Yorker) to the midwest, I met a guy. Actually, I met a couple guys. Hell, I could have met more had I went out on the town a fraction as often as I did in New York. But the one I’m dating is a keeper. We quickly became boyfriend-girlfriend, and it’s WONDERFUL. Hell, I need to start practicing yoga to limber up. Every moment is wonderful, and we both acknowledge it. Easily. I trust, I give, I need, and I am trusted, given to and needed. We think it’s because we have ‘perspective’ as he says. He’s not that experienced, nor am I, even at my age. And this is the one thing I’ve always been looking for in a person. It’s hard to even explain, if I had more time…

                I really want to respond to some of your points, many of which I disagree with on such a fundamental level that they’re difficult to explain, or perhaps, are difficult to be understood by those who have a different set of values, or lacking any knowledge of what theirs really are, or are too stuck in their own. But I will try- mostly for the lonely, strong goodhearted, New York women on here who keep plugging along in unhappiness and even misery!, and, most importantly perhaps- who have a new, revelatory inkling of something brighter, those women who have caught a sudden whiff of something being rotten in the state of New York.

                There’s so much I could say, and so little time. *sigh*

                Your general argument about women being miserable being due to our own (assumed) unreasonably high expectations of men, is the expected one. It’s a common one on the internet. It reeks of bitterness, vanity and narcissism on the part of those arguing it. It’s also misandrous. Men are not less capable of emotion, love or commitment than women. They are geared to protect us. Their hearts are not less developed or smaller than ours. They may work differently, but they are not less. I am so, SO, sooo tired of hearing that they are. I know in my soul now – or perhaps simply remember- that indeed it’s nothing but the ideological insistence of many embittered or small-minded, wounded men whose hearts are indeed, smaller, and not *all* men.

                Moreover, it, this repellant new ideology, is an illogical premise. It simply makes no sense. No living organism accepts misery as a state of being without attempting as desperately as possible to struggle *away* from it. That’s what pain is- a signal our body is giving us to get away from something. An organism will adjust its tactics or expectations. A starving, sick bear will eat a dead fish. To think that all us women, some of us quite intelligent and accomplished (hence our coming or being here), are simply consistently, for years, clueless of where we stand in the pecking order, and pursue men who are ‘out of our league’ and then surprised at our resulting treatment which brings us misery by that ‘object’, yet continue to persist in this behavior is clearly irrational. Some women do this. They are damaged and deserve to be pull themselves or be pulled, from the dirt. But they are a minority. What I and others have been complaining about and seeking advice for is another issue. We are starving and are lucky to even find a dead fish..so perhaps we’re considering another migration pattern.

                Further, it’s clearly a suspicious theory. Would it not be more comfortable to you, as a ‘player’ to believe that the complaining women are indeed less deserving of what they pursue, and thus should view the awful treatment they get (in their naivete, and sometimes pure-intentioned-ness) is due to their own folly? That women generally deserve less than what they intuitively need? Does this not naturally absolve you of guilt for your actions which perpetuate misery? This theory is a justification for lack of ethics and maturity. It also assumes that the pecking order is the same everywhere- it isn’t, and never is.

                I want to tell you something. I’ve thought a bit about this just the other day and this is what I came up with. I wonder if anyone here have perhaps come up with the same idea. Here it is: it should take a while to get to, as all the important things do. Humans write stories. We think in metaphor; we create symbols. When we fantasize, about Prince Charming or that dream of opening that cupcake store or that dream job, these ideas encapsulate much of who we are. They have spiritual value for us and play particular critical psychological AND social roles.

                When us ‘deluded’ women fantasize about Prince Charming, we all fantasize about him in different ways. There has never been one Prince Charming for all women. Sure he is handsome, tall and charming..he usually has a horse and a kingdom. But not really. We don’t all *actually* see him with those traits or carrying all those things. Sometimes he appears when he need him to, because he is Prince Charming. He is the deep, deep desire of many women to know that there is someone who is not perfect or rich or handsome or can and will ‘rescue’ us, but that can make us happy- or content.

                How we are and *if* we can be made happy at all is up to the mental and emotional state of the individual woman. But we can have our needs fulfilled and be happy, and we want this intuitively- as all humans do- and this is why Prince Charming was created by someone somewhere, and made known to everyone everywhere.

                Prince Charming is an ideal, and a hope, and ideals carry us…they also reflect who we are and what we need, and what we should give.

                I suppose that you fancy yourself a sort of cynical, streetwise, savvy ‘there’s no Santa claus’ naysayer- someone who knows *better* than many others. This is where your pride stems from. But this is not truth. This is lack of perspective.

                Appreciating a worthy object of desire, i.e. beauty, is what we do as humans. To see beyond the exteriors into the beauty that hides, is what we need to do as humans more often. I believe in New York it’s almost nearly impossible because there is too much beauty in general, too much clutter. It’s a shame because it’s one of the most liberating experiences one can have.

                Bill, I understand you are saying that us women should not play out of our leagues. I explained above why some of that ideology is silly: because ‘leagues’ differ in different places and are the harshest and least balanced in NYC and L.A., because it assumes decency of treatment is only for the most beautiful, because we are geared as humans to want an ideal, and because it assumes that’s exactly what us women are doing when many of us clearly aren’t.

                As for “There’s someone for everyone”, I find it comedic that you say ‘history proves it’ when you actually give no evidence for it. I;’d need a graph or a multicolor pie chart based on a double blind study to agree. Evidence bolsters a theory; not historical events. Events are products of human behavior. Your argument is not even tenuous; simply because it’s like saying ‘history proved that Germans like killing Jews’. Actually, under certain sets of factors in certain environments, sets of *individuals* will commit genocide against other sets of individuals. That’s all that history has proved. It certainly doesn’t disregard individual psychology, pathology, free will or all the massive and gorgeous resistance that makes movies and novels. You’ve missed the point. The point is that, like gravity or evolution, the idea that there is someone for everyone can not *be* proven, but it could be attained in a perfect utopia where individuals made better decisions.

                I think it’s unhealthy to send ANYONE into the world with the idea that they are going to get into some *perfect* relationship eventually because there simply *is* no perfect. Young girls should be taught the truth: that life is hard, and men can be douches just like women can, and some men are not perfect but wonderful, that if you are wonderful too, you are more likely to get wonderful back; and to be wonderful for the right reasons, so you have the strength to only accept the wonderful.

                The discussion of what you had to play with as a child is an irrelevant one. I played with my brother’s tinker toys and transformers; I threw dolls that friends of my parents (who never MADE me play with anything) to the ground and usually ignored them. I’m still quite feminine. That doesn’t mean anything, and it’s unfair to those little girls who genuinely enjoyed playing dress up and using easy bake ovens. Perhaps they learned to love cooking enough to become chefs or caiterers or to become great housewives. Good for all of them. Good for them.

                It doesn’t matter that you don’t know how to change a diaper and that I knew how when I was 6 or that my boyfriend doesn’t know how to. What matters is a person’s character and their ability to give, to learn, to learn how.

                “I wasn’t set up for that life. I don’t think it’s fun. I was playing baseball and football while your baby doll was wetting itself and you were being set up.”

                I am glad you know what you’re not set up for, my hope would be that things in your world fall right and that everyone is ok with how they do.

                I am not glad over the derision seeping out of your words. No woman has been set up. Women are not victims (that you think we are is sad for you, not for us). We work out of our own intuition and needs, and sometimes they’re babydolls who’ve wet themselves and sometimes we get bored and walk away and sometimes we change the diaper and sometimes we don’t play with dolls but mostly tinker toys and we change our brother’s diapers because we’re envious that our mom knows how and we don’t. Sometimes we grow up to be great moms and sometimes we don’t and it’s all okay because none of use have been set up. We make choices and we have enough of them in our society to take responsibility for them.

                I wish their was some specificity to what this so-called ‘dream’ of ours is. Perhaps you don’t know what it’s like to be trusted or loved, or perhaps you don’t believe there are enough people out there with enough maturity, character and values to ever be monogamous and content. Perhaps you are incapable of it, but there certainly are enough good men out there to make most of us happy at least, even if ta bunch of them have to lose 100 lbs, start putting on makeup and cooking for some bald, short average guy. I’m pretty sure us humans can work it out…nah- to be honest, only some of us can. But those SOME are the most deserving anyway.

                “I’m not making this stuff up myself. This isn’t fiction. I’m not speculating. I’m talking about what people have actually said and done, or what I’VE actually said and done.”

                Anecdotal evidence is laughable in a court of logicians.

                No intelligent, logical woman with good values doesn’t know what some men are thinking, lol. But an intelligent, logical woman with good values knows what to kick to the curb and when. We *also*, importantly, know that it’s not a terrible thing because there are good men out there, you know, the ones that sometimes daydream about that porn they saw while you’re PMSing and talking about your father’s death those years back, but that stop and realize that you’re talking, and begin listening, and hold you in their arms even if they’re not in the mood. Many men do this, and many of them do this often, and many of them don’t consider it a burden, and many even may want to talk about their father’s death too one day and be held in your arms too…and maybe that’s why they are do understanding to you to begin with?? Maybe it’s because some people have a capacity, and others don’t.

                Young women are not making good decisions in terms of their dating choices anymore, but unfortunately alot of them are hopeless due to what they see out there in terms of men’s behavior. It’s a circle, a back and forth thing.

                “If the only examples you have of what men think is buying y’all flowers and candy and saying we’re wrong when we know we’re right, you’ll never be able to understand why a relationship went south or never got started at all.”

                lol You’re totally right here!!! Because if this is actually what women expect, it’s something called narcissism. It’s a pathology, a psychiatric condition. Perhaps though, this is the way that you view it through the lens of your own narcissism, your own colossal and neverending needs? Perchance?

                “I would say that if you detect a “mocking and derisive tone” in what I have to say about “women’s needs”, it’s because y’all bore me to death with how easily you’re led to do whatever men want with some simple, meaningless words.”

                Ahhh! Now you’re one to something, I love this. lol. Truly, not all women are this weak and dumb. Also, not all women assume that men are constantly lying about everything.

                “I don’t have to love you at all, but if I say it, you’ll believe it, because you want to believe it, because you were trained to believe it from when you were a little girl….that y’all fall for like dominoes, every single day.”

                Ok, now this is just weird. What woman actually believes a guy loves her when she barely knows him or he hasn’t committed to her first?? That’s just too bizarre to even contend with. You must be attracting the most pathetic, naive, or damaged young women in the whole city if that’s the case. Tsk tsk. What’s even sadder, actually, is that you seem to want to justify these women’s messed-upness by interpreting it as being a result of us being ‘trained’ to expect love everywhere immediately from any guy that comes along. I think it’s more likely that they’re just desperate for any affection from a man in this city, which as sad as *that* is, they still are certainly complicit in that guy’s absence the next morning, lol.

                “What a guy thinks of you doesn’t actually matter at all. … Once you realize this, it doesn’t lead to your thinking that you don’t need a man, but it’s a healthier foundation for you to stand on and SELECT a man to be with that recognizes you and appreciates you for the qualities you’re bringing to the table.”

                Well I must say, I think this is a bit unbalanced, typical of modern liberal feminist thought that I find so repugnant, ideological, socially damaging and inherently illogical. If the man has good character and you want a good relationship, OF COURSE what he thinks of you matters- not because you’re desperate to please everyone like someone with low self esteem but
                because that’s the mutual aspect of a good relationship. It matters what you think of him and it matters what he thinks of you. All this separateness is no foundation for a good relationship, it’s good for the independent type of people who should have separate lives. But I will reiterate, what he thinks should only matter to a woman AFTER she’s appropriately judged his character and has known alot about him for a while.

                “There’s nothing to pulling women, because y’all fall for the same tricks every day.”

                Lol at “y’all”. This is hilarious. I have a little story for you. An old roommate of mine, a nice little plain looking guy with woman troubles, got me interested in the Pick Up Artist on VH1- at first for my feminist radar, secondly because it was fascinating as a social experiment. I then read ‘The Game’ by Neil Strauss. I got so far into this as to email with the author a bit. Want to know what I learned from both that book, the show and what apparently many other men have said to me too? Throughout the entire book, where the narrator must have bedded gosh- hundreds of women- from psychology students to porn stars, not one- not a single ONE- of these descriptions of these women were the type of chick I’d hang with. As an ex- New York club chick, I can tell you I’ve seen alot of this. And I can tell the women who are high quality types from the marginally attractive, semi-educated nutcases with low self-esteem and not much to say about anything, in a New york minute. I know the models from the art students and the bulimics from the biology PhDs from good families. Is this misogynist of me? Or is it just truth that in every group of people, like all the people of the planet, some people are just *better* than others? Hmm, an interesting thought but. Anyway, EVERY SINGLE woman was either very young and working through esteem issues, or just plain messed up, and the only chick this guy fell for in this book was ‘high quality’. The articulate supersmart ultracool famous rocker chick.

                The point is, the girls falling for this are either 1. naive and very young (shame on you) 2. vulnerable in some way due to self esteem issues from whatever in their lives (shame on you) 3. just dumb (shame on you) or 4. know exactly what they’re doing and are ok with a one night stand where they dont have to feel guilty for wanting and having because that guy is ‘just a jerk’.

                I don’t buy that the MAJORIY OF ALL WOMEN are falling for the ‘game’. Certainly not the high quality ones.

                I’m serious. Did I? you know when I did? About twice when I first started dating and my brother had just died. Have I since then? Nope.

                Coincidence? I think not.

                So alot of this game is based on sound behavioral principles…women, the more time and effort invested, the more women will give back, sooner. But at the end of the day, it’s either taking advantage of the weak and it’s not the best women who are going along with it..because the ones who know their worth are not going to go have some fun with *you*, they’re going to go have fun with a perfect 10. I know I did once or twice! ;) And you must know this.

                “Some women object to even CALLING dating “a game”, but it most definitely is.”

                At first, it is a bit of a game, and games are fun and healthy, and provide a playing ground for important psychological needs and abilities- as long as no cheating is involved. The real trouble begins where people haven’t agreed as to what the rules are, and it may be argued that in fact, due to the very nature of dating (ie. people who barely know eachother getting to know eachother) the rules can not BE known as they havent been discused first and people seem to all have different sets of rules today. And so precisely because of this, we are more ethically indebted to eachother to be more upfront and honest about things.

                Further there is no way that as you get into ‘I genuinely like you’ and ‘let’s be exclusive’ territory there should be games. Perhaps little things, a bit of jealousy or showing off here and there, but there should be more giving than manipulation. The problem is that some people are too damaged to ever really be normal. *sigh*

                “…stages of “Don’t want to look like a slut” and “What will he think of me?” and “I don’t want to be judged” and “Where is this relationship going?” and “Are we exclusive”, blah blah blah.. ”

                See that’s the problem. It’s supposed to be easy. Too many women don’t get it. The guy is supposed to be the one putting forward where things are going without you asking. The point at which I feel I really have a burning desire or feel I just have to ask, is the point at which I’m gone. Because the ENTIRE MEANING AND POINT of a relationship doesn’t exist. I don’t get to feel secure, or cared about, or special, or needed, or that the man is there and wants to be with me in the way I need him to be. SO WHY BE THERE?

                WHY THE HELL DIDN’T SHE LEAVE ALREADY?

                “Meanwhile, we just watch y’all run around in unnecessary circles until you finally calm down and get with the program that you always wanted from the first time you felt attracted to us.”

                Why I’m sure you know, because you know *all* women right? I totally felt attracted to a guy because he’s a player? Because he’s so sexually experienced that I can get chlamydia? Or worry about getting it? Um no, sorry I had a good father and I haven’t been abused so um. Nope. *buzzer* Wrong. That woman isn’t happy, or she wouldn’t have been running around in circles as you say. She’s doing so because she’s drawn into a sad, pathetic pattern where she wants *him* but also wants more of him that he can give, and she simply can’t leave, who knows why.

                ..and no, it’s not society telling us to be prudes but that we really want only random sex with hotties. Women need bonding more often than men do, that’s all. We want *more* of the man than his penis. We want more of his penis more often. It’s evolution. Some men can give us this, some can’t. Why waste my time with hot chlamydia man?

                “Lying to you would make you feel better, yet send you out into the world similarly ill- equipped to deal with your next relationship.”

                But see. The problem is that I think you and I are at full poles apart from eachother in terms of what’s going on. There are good women out there who are desperate for a simple, even short term exclusive relationship in NYC and can’t find it, and it’s not society but their own deepseated needs, and it’s breaking their hearts, esp. as they begin aging. *THAT’s the problem- But you on your end, seem to keep trying to tell us that wake up to a harsh, pathetic reality and only expect the very least from the smallest people, and that it’s OKAY. It’s tearing society apart, or at least is on its way to do that unless more women stand up and state their needs and fess up to their misery and set some boundaries for acceptable behavior and that we actually need men.

                I think there’s an in between here? Like maybe, let people be players, but leave the rest alone to work through the sometimes imperfections of real and healthy relationships?

                “As far as NYC being a hellhole for women who are looking to get involved in a monogamous LTR, I say it’s better to recognize that, feel sour about it briefly, then put together a gameplan to get what you want out of life,”

                The trouble, Bill, is that part of what some of us want out of life- and many of us women will recognize this- is that part of what we need is not to get more out of life but to give something to it.

                “..instead of hoping against hope that something’s going to change when every woman in the same subway car with you is trying to achieve the same thing you are, and guys know that we can take our time choosing or never choose at all.”

                It’s just the numbers. (And the fashion industry skewing up guys’ expectations). Water seeks its own level and good people will find good people. Relationshippers will find relationshippers. But not in New York. And thank god in the heavens or Buddha or Ganesh or whoever that there are much better places than New York. And they are everywhere.

                • Susan says:

                  oh one last thing. The chick from that book I mentioned, The Game? She left the guy in the end for a way hotter, attractive fellow musician.

                  Take that for what it’s worth….maybe gaming works in some ways but not others, which the author makes pretty clear, and there are more than example of this in the book: it gets you women sexually, but not for the long term (if that’s what you want). The Game doesn’t work in the heart. Which really, is what alot of us, not just women, and sometimes even players with all the options in the world, really want.

                • steve says:

                  Yeah, I know I’m cherry picking here but there was a lot… agreed good people will attract other good people. Fortunately or unfortunately people who are f’d up or too hell bent on achieving a kind of relationship instead of fully evaluating the person in front them become victims. Admittedly it’s not by choice or just an abeyance of rational control but you gotta get cool with yourself and understand your own motivations if you want to find the real things in life. In. My. Opinion. Then there’s still no guarantees but if you’re cool you’re cool independent of that.

  9. […] as if what they’re doing has ANY meaning, whatsoever. I was hanging out with one of the 210,820 extra chicks in this town last night, and, as usual, there were numerous packs of 3-5 chicks scampering around the city from […]

  10. […] or thought. I might use other people’s material as a foundation for what MY point is, like in Women’s Guide to NYC Dating, but I make a CLEAR distinction between what someone else posted and what’s coming directly […]

  11. nycmaiden says:

    For those that troll the internet for fast, easy hook-ups, NYC has by far anything and everything to be had sexually…even depravity. However, for those of us who truly want to find a lasting mate to share life with, relate to, to feel comfortable and safe with, NYC is virtually a cesspool of players, liars and sex exploiters. These men lurk on conventional dating sites as well, not to mention the alternative sex sites that are cropping up all over the place. I had an experience that has left me scarred. We met on a site while he was in LA…started out as long-distance. He explained his desires as being mutual for a long-lasting relationship, mentioning all the niceties that a woman wants to hear. Sharing, similar goals, etc. We chatted every few days, then daily. This went on for 3 months. He was BRITISH, in the fashion business and traveled extensively around the world and seemed sincere. ALOT of text messaging every day…how impersonal. We finally agreed he come to me in Denver. He initiated the conversation about getting tested for STDs. It was too good to be true…we had SO much in common. All seemed glorious. It was VERY clear he had much sexual experience. Another 3 months of daily communicating and I agreed to see him in NYC. When I arrived tho, he seemed extremely nervous. My instincts by this time were becoming louder. I had already experienced the gut feelings and little red flags, but when endorphins take over, the brain gets muddled. That weekend in NYC, I found out purely by accident, he had a daughter in London and he was a fetishist. This was clearly not what I signed up for…so watch out and be safe…lying freaks in NYC are plentiful!

    • susan says:

      I love you for saying this. It is 100% true and needed to be said. The sad thing is that the tough independence of women here helps to conceal the problem imo…no one wants to admit the guys are spoiled jerks who with no relationship skills and who treat women badly, and the women are secretly wounded and desperate and pretending not to be. Period.

      I’m a native New Yorker in my 30s and never lived anywhere else. I’ve never wanted anything *but* a relationship and have never come close here to finding one. After I started researching it, both online and talking to out of state-ers, it turns out, we single-and-looking hetero women are putting ourselves in the most competitive place on the planet for us. It’s disgustingly unfair – not unless you are asexual and not looking for a companion and all you have is your wonderful career which flourishes here in NYC- and the sex ratio/fashion industry problem is damaging to our own sense of worth, emotional growth, and view of men in general.

      So after nearly a century of my family’s history in this country, I’m leaving the city where my grandfather was born in Williamsburg in 1915.

      And it can kiss my ass.

      • Bill Cammack says:

        That’s the entire point, Susan.

        As you’ve noticed from living this life, the dating environment for women SUCKS in NYC. Between the guys that aren’t even interested in relationships because there are enough (if not too many) women that are down for whatever with no commitment necessary and the guys that have no ida how to treat women even if they FEEL like committing to one, it’s just a series of sob stories and anger from women here that are really just looking for something very simple, but they can’t get it.

        The only hope for women in this town is their personalities because there are too many women here offering looks and sex but nothing at all of value internally as human beings. Guys get used to these interactions and stop expecting quality interactions from women.

        It’s a cycle and the only options for women to escape are being better human beings than most other women in this town or removing themselves from this situation and alighting in a different and way more female-friendly environment.

        • susan says:

          being better human beings doesn’t change the context and amount of difficulty we are faced to endure. It is unjust and despicable. I’ve never even really engaged in dating so taking myself out of the equation never even needed to be done…however, I am also a human being who needs human touch, and the empty, self-involved, immature pigs here are not an option for me. Therefore only leaving is left. I’ve already signed a lease in the midwest and have a ride there. ;) Go me!

          • susan says:

            JULY 30.

          • Bill Cammack says:

            I know you’re right about being a better person not changing the surrounding circumstances.

            This is where my philosophy is seen as different, not to put words in Sophia’s mouth…

            I say “Figure out The Game so you can decide whether you want to play it or not”. Others say “Believe in The Dream and live it!!! :D”. I see this as an example of your recognizing that this situation isn’t working for you and a change of venue will at least do you some good and at most put you on the right track to achieve what you want out of life.

            As strange as it may seem, this town with millions of people in it is NOT the place to try to receive “the human touch”. There’s always a price on it and if people don’t feel like you can pay it, they’re not giving you any light at all.

            I was at this party the other day and chicks were walking by me like as if they didn’t even see me standing there because they weren’t interested in talking to me. That’s The Game. \o/ If someone would have told them that I could have helped their careers or businesses, they would have been on me in a split second, handing out numbers like white on rice! >:D (not that white rice hands out business cards, it’s just that that sounded SO GOOD when I thought it up! :D)

            If you don’t recognize that people have ulterior motives when they approach you, you’re short in this environment. Are there other, regular, DECENT interactions, yes, there most certainly are.

            At that same party, several gals walked up, we smiled at each other, introduced ourselves and started chatting. That’s The Game. \o/ You get whatever you get when you go somewhere. I meet new women every week. Some guys NEVER meet new women. If the environment isn’t working for you, it’s best to recognize that and stack the deck in your favor for once! :D

            Good Luck with the move. :)

            • susan says:

              thanks. The problem isn’t exactly getting guys to date me, the problem is who they are and how fast they disappear once they realize I won’t let them screw me. ;)

      • Susan,
        I googled “secretly wounded and desperate and pretending not to be” before responding in order to suggest internet venues which would, perhaps, better suit you.
        No matter where you alight IRL, if the not so invisible sign over your head sez “secretly wounded and desperate” men are going to run like hell. Get happy. Lay down the baggage about grandfather and Williamsburg as if it matters in the modern day arena of seeking a (good) man. At least you were able to explore what a fetishist was, and had a few good months before that of being in a relationship which you thought made you a little bit happy and in which you could have become a step Mom. But maybe not. I pause to consider your statement that that is all you’ve ever wanted but you’ve never had it and never come close to it, in your four decades on the planet. My guess would be that you wouldn’t recognize it if it fell out of the sky on your head like a pancake because you are so quarrelsome about men in general. I don’t buy that you really want what you say you want. But I do, I really do wish you happiness. Change your words and your mindset and new and different experiences will come.
        Good Luck

        • Christine says:

          Ok the pancake fell on MY head! It was nyc maiden with the fetishist. Sorry to have lumped you two together in a composite.

          • susan says:

            it’s funny how it’s the women most prone to criticizing other women, who seem to have the least reason to do so

      • Steve says:

        Susan, tere was this awful relationship blog I used to follow (the content seemed to be from a variety of writers and they never responded engaged with comments) and the one good kernel of info to come from it regarding NYC chicks looking for THE relationship was, look outside The City. I don’t have the context of being an NYC resident of any duration but is that statement really not as obvious as it seems to me?
        Maybe you don’t need to move out, maybe you need to break the sacred Two River Rule? I’m only half kidding when I say that as I got hit over the head with it recently…

  12. Bill Cammack says:

    Thanks for the comment, nycmaiden.

    I’ve yet to post about “online dating”, because it’s clearly THE WORST! There’s no reason AT ALL someone that types to you on a keyboard or sends text messages to you would necessarily feel any goodwill towards you whatsoever. There’s no real connection between you. Also, there’s no sense of potential loss. If they mess up the rap to you… who cares? They’re kicking it to at least 20 other chicks anyway and whatever pans out pans out.

    The best bet in dating is to date people who friends of yours already know. Checks & Balances. That way, if the person’s a jerk, your friends can tell you so off the bat. Also, they’re less likely to cross personal boundaries of yours because besides not getting on with YOU again, they lose face in front of their friends that know you and the rest of their community.

    NYC isn’t just a haven for freaks and liars. It’a a haven for ACTORS. There are a lot of people here who try to live into roles that aren’t natural to them. Unfortunately, the only way to tell what’s what is to hang out with someone and find out what they’re really like.

    Don’t believe all that you heard
    Or half of what you see
    It’s a waste of time
    To criticize
    Don’t De-Rock ME! :D
    ~Tesla

  13. […] there were a bunch of unattractive females with lame personalities = you lose business. There are literally too many extra women in this town to interact with unintelligent or crabby females…. 210,820 extra, to be […]

  14. […] an endless supply of chicks in this town. By one report, there are 210,820 excess single women in NYC. This means that when it comes to kicking game, women are completely expendable. You can ruin a rap […]

  15. Trevor Emdon says:

    Great article, Bill! You’re so right about looks – what a shame people don’t get that if the secret to a great love life, (ahem – correction) to a great life, is going out with an attitude of “What can I give?” not “What’s in it for me?”

    So many men & women wait for love by playing the “when/then game” – that’s “When someone gorgeous finds me, THEN I’ll look great.”

    It doesn’t work that way – as you beautifully pointed out!

    Hope someone listens to ya!

    Trev.

  16. Bill Cammack says:

    Thanks Trevor. :)

    hmmmmm… That’s a great concept… “The when/then game”. That totally makes sense.

    It also comes into play when people are currently IN relationships and “let themselves go”. They think that when they get back out on the market, they’re the same hot property they were when they got scooped up, but they’ve made it magnitudes tougher on themselves to get people’s attention because they look so horrible now, which is part of the reason they’re getting dumped in the first place. :)

  17. Ford says:

    Dude – have you seen this map?

    http://www.xoxosoma.com/singles/?n=0&x=9&a=1

    It sort of blows away every thing you have said here. I’m not looking to burst your bubble or make you feel bad but I’m curious what your comments are?

  18. Ford says:

    In fact the map I added actually was built based on the mistakes of the map you are referring to.

    What it says is that all of these women you are talking about being single are actually 45 or older with most of them being in their 60s.

  19. Here are my comments about the interactive map, “Ford”. Thanks. :D

    […] “Ford” left a comment on my “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating” and pointed out an interesting article by […]

  20. Jett says:

    There may be statistically more women…but, they tend to be fat and butt ugly. What you should do is compare the amount of horny males to actual, good looking, available women. Then, you’ll realize that men clearly out number this group. This city tends to attract very LARGE females. They think that because the buildings are so big that maybe their 250 lb. bodies won’t appear quite so out of place. Also, there are a lot of uneducated males in this city. So, basically you have a very large category of sub human animal species. You’d have to incorporate that into your statistical bin as well. In the end there are very FEW intelligent, good looking males & females. The rest are simply a cess pool of humanity called “New York City”. Oh, you think I’m wrong about this? Ever been to jury duty? How about the INS building? You can look back a million years into some of those faces.

    • E.H. says:

      Jett! I have never laughed so hard in my life. I can’t agree completely since I have lived in both the East Village, SoHo/Chinatown border / and now on the UES- they women that walk around all appear to be between 25 and 35 and are super good looking, thin, smart…. it’s endless. However, I still meet tons of women with unrealistic standards who are not very nice. Do you have a blog Jett?!?!?

      • Bill Cammack says:

        Hey Jett, E.H…. I could have sworn I already replied to this.

        The point isn’t how good looking the women are. Granted, NYC has a very low percentage of good-looking women, but that doesn’t matter because there are so many of them. The market’s virtually flooded.

        For this reason, there’s no reason to chase a better-looking chick to try to get something a few weeks from now that a less-attractive chick will do for you right now.

        They’re all in competition with each other, which is why “Nice Gals Finish First!” :D

  21. […] one single girl for every one single guy in NYC…. Now, on to the quality issues: Jett: “There may be statistically more women…but, they tend to be fat and butt ugly. What you […]

  22. […] ruining your opportunities. I keep saying, and people keep trying to dispute that there are too many available, attractive women in New York City for y’all to be slackin’ in the looks department and think you’re going to catch […]

  23. […] I woke up this morning thinking about this song, because for me, it exemplifies the mercenary nature of dating in New York City. […]

  24. […] we’ve discussed before, there are literally hundreds of thousands of women on the NYC dating scene. You can’t “throw a rock” without hitting a chick you might like to hook up with […]

  25. D says:

    Bill you won’t get a quality woman in NY that’s for sure… you can’t even spell

    • Bill Cammack says:

      First of all, ANONYMOUS PERSON… :D

      I’ve never, *EVER* been subjected to a spelling test by a female in my entire life, and I don’t know ANYONE who ever has, so your argument is retarded. :)

      Second, please feel free to inform me of anything I’ve misspelled haha Thanks for the free typographical error proofreading.

      Third, don’t try to count my Twitter account, because if you see “RT” in front of what I posted, that means I’m only copying what someone else wrote, so I won’t accept ANY responsibility for someone else’s illiteracy. :D

  26. D says:

    Wow, “never”? Then you haven’t met that many women. :)

    • Bill Cammack says:

      How many times have *YOU* been quizzed on spelling by a chick you wanted to bang? Zero. That’s how many. Stop being a clown. :) If you have something relevant to add, do it.

      Thanks for the comments :)

  27. C says:

    Much sooner than later women in NY realize that guys in NY are the lowest on the global totem pole.

    • susan says:

      ha! they’re also spoiled, egotistical, self-involved asses.

      • Bill Cammack says:

        hahaha No argument there from ME, Susan! :D

        That’s why they make things so easy for The Kid by comparison.

        It’s actually rather funny watching gals commit to lame-ass dudes and counting down the days until they quit that garbage and reenter the Free Agent market. >:D

        • Steve says:

          People live up to or down to whatever they need to get what they want.
          In NYC some guys can get away to what amounts to murder in Seattle. One of the knock on effects of a seemingly infinite supply and rapid turnover of fresh women is that there’s no persistence of social memory or grapevine. Dude’s can throw bad raps all day and get downright nefarious because there’s no repercussions. And it’s not just the men. Women can be as dismissive and flaky as hell because no one’s in their peer group long enough to keep score. I keep saying it, NYC is like Fantasy Island for a whole lot of folks. do what you please, it won’t come back to you. Throw that at a whole bunch of type A folks who are finally realizing that mommy and daddy aren’t looking over their shoulders.

          Obviously they’re not laying out the real deal when they go back home else the expectation of the people flooding in to replace them would change. OR they’d be chastised, shamed, whatever, into better behavior.

          Mom: Honey, welcome back home! How are things at the new job?

          Kid: Well, my boss gave me a promotion! [And I had my first orgy and caught something, and ecstasy’s really not so bad, and there was that time I passed out on the street on some garbage bags after an all night binge and the cops had to take me home, etc.]

          Dad: That’s swell!

          • Bill Cammack says:

            Excellent point about the turnover, Steve.

            I told a chick that to her face once, and she didn’t believe me. I told her that her opinion didn’t matter to me at all because after today, she wasn’t going to exist anymore.

            I wasn’t being harsh. I was being truthful. That was nearly three years ago now and I haven’t seen hide nor hair of that chick and it doesn’t matter to me at all because she wasn’t an acquaintance of mine.. She was just part of that evening’s entertainment and like thousands of other chicks that I’ve met and didn’t remain in contact with, once she rode off into the sunset, she was going to disappear into history with the rest of them.

            It’s just a fact. You can walk into a bar, make out with a chick in front of 20-30 people, walk out the door, take 10 steps up the block, walk in the door of the bar next door and make out with a different chick in front of another 30 people and neither set of patrons is ever going to know about what happened in the other bar. >:D

            Multiply that by the number of bars and the number of blocks and the number of neighborhoods and the number of boroughs and then add turnover and commuters and you could mess with a different chick every day of the week for the entire year without repeating.

            So, Yes.. Expendability leads to jerk-like behavior on both sides of the table. Gals know, as Sophia pointed out somewhere recently, that six more guys are going to try to get her number before she makes it to the subway. Guys know that if this chick doesn’t give it up, her sister, best friend, mother or some other chick will, so what difference does an individual make? \o/

            • Steve says:

              But the other points sucked? LOL
              I remember we were “arguing” about your use of the term “expendable” which I thought was inappropriate but the world turns and the truth is revealed. NYC is like a Shakespearean play revolving around several million characters and some folks are just the like the scenery. Expendable.

          • susan says:

            Some people live by principle and know what’s right and wrong. Why does everyone like hurting women?

  28. fishingrod says:

    Hi Bill,

    to add my two cents to this spelling discussion: When I was looking for a dancepartner via the internet, first of all I eliminated all candidates who could not spell properly. One of them spelled the word “jive” like this: “chive”. Deleted his e-mail right away, even though he had the right height and lived nearby. I don’t like to hang out with retarded people.
    And one of the things I find attractive about you – even though we have never met and probably never will – is your writing style and the fact that you spell better than most of your commenters.

    But then again, I am a geek chick, so my opinion might not be representative….. :-)

    • Derek says:

      Hmm… I heard that both Bill Gates and Kevin Rose were bad spellers. Oh, well.

      • Bill Cammack says:

        That’s probably true, Derek :D

        However, both Bill Gates (I can’t believe you actually mentioned that OTHER Bill on MY blog! :O hahaha What’s next? Somebody brings up Clinton too?) and Kevin Rose are…. RICH.

        The original comment by the troll was that I wouldn’t be able to get a quality woman in NYC (I’ll add the C for them, because they probably don’t realize that NY indicates New York, which means the entire state, including the sticks) because I can’t spell. That’s DOUBLE-RETARDED, because first of all, I spell perfectly well 99.9999999998799% of the time, and second of all, when you meet chicks on the fly that have no access to your Social Media where you’ve spelled things on the net for years, there’s no way they can judge you on your spelling, and I have NEVAR (hehe) been asked by a single chick in my entire life… NOT ONE… whether I can spell or not. However, that’s normally because if a chick wants to know something like that, the first thing she’s going to ask is what school I went to and then when she hears the list, including MIT, she gets the clue that I’m probably smarter than most of the guys she’s messed with in her entire life, so whatever erotic fantasies she had of giving me spelling tests go right out the window.

        So, while I see what your argument is.. Nobody cares whether Rose or Gates can spell. However, you DO bring up a very interesting question.. Whether a chick wouldn’t date a rich, popular guy because she read his personal blog and he was functionally illiterate. Like I said to Fishingrod, I (and most guys) have the luxury of not caring whether a chick can spell or not as far as bootie-call status, but a chick isn’t going to get any kind of leadership position with me if I don’t consider her SOMEWHERE CLOSE to my level of intelligence, or at least, if not intelligence, DILIGENCE in school!

        Actually, I rather enjoy hanging out with women that I consider to be smarter than I am, or at least more dedicated to something than I am to the degree that they’ve done their studies and research and know way more about that topic than I do. It’s an incredibly different experience from talking to a chick like a bat and watching your voice echo off her face, because she has nothing to say because she didn’t understand anything you’ve said for the last five minutes. :D

    • Bill Cammack says:

      @Fishingrod: haha Thanks for the two cents! :D

      The thing that’s so stupid about that troll’s statement is that I’m virtually impeccable when it comes to spelling. That’s because I hate dummies just as much as you do. It’s a complete turnoff. It’s like “did you go to school past the first grade?” I just can’t take it.

      Yet and still, I was willing to entertain the troll’s comment out of respect for the fact that he or she came to my blog and commented. I know what they’re saying is ridiculous, because percentage-wise, out of all the things I’ve written, my spelling error percentage is ZERO. Also, when I DO make mistakes….. they’re MISTAKES, so if they’re pointed out to me, I’ll thank the person, correct it and hopefully not make the same mistake again. It was clear that that clown was trolling, so I didn’t bother to hand out this explanation.

      There are things I misspell intentionally, such as fellaz, but that’s attempting to print slang. That’s spelling words that don’t exist, not misspelling words that do.

      The funny thing is, now that you bring up what you said, I hadn’t considered VISUALLY being tested for spelling. You’re absolutely right. I’m sure I’ve been ‘graded’ on my spelling by women that have come here and read my material for the past two years. I do the same thing. If a chick doesn’t know the difference between there & their or who’s and whose or your & you’re, they go right in the mental garbage can as far as dating.

      Luckily for me, I’m a guy, so I have the luxury of not giving a damn whether a chick is smart or not as long as she looks good. Women don’t have it that easy, because y’all are (subconsciously or not) looking for guys to have kids with and, by nature, y’all know that it’s better for your kids to inject yourself with intelligent genes instead of producing kids that will most likely be dumber than you currently are. This is why I advocated for y’all to only date guys better than you are.

      Dating Dummies is a major mistake, however, for guys as well. It all depends on how much you’re going to depend on her to do ANYTHING other than cook and have sex. Same thing goes for dating liars. I’m going to get into this at length, probably next week, because I’ve been working on a project recently that got its delivery date pushed up HALF A MONTH, and I should finally be done with it later tonight, so I can get back to writing.

      So, Fishingrod.. Thanks to your INTELLIGENT comments about the topic, I have a new topic to write about.. “Are you being tested via your Social Media?”.

      Thank You! :D

  29. joe says:

    For such a surplus of women in NYC they certainly not the friendliest human beings around. If you dont work with them they really dont want to be bothered with you. I dont see them being very attractive either. Go to other big cities and youll see alot more attractive women whom you have a better shot at.

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Absolutely true, Joe.. On both counts! :D

      NYC doesn’t have a high PERCENTAGE of attractive women… It’s just that with MILLIONS of women in this area, even a low percentage of hawt chicks is going to yield an infinite supply… Especially when you add in migrants and tourists.

      They’re not friendly because they don’t see any need to be. They’re all hanging on to this pipe dream of landing this incredible guy that actually doesn’t exist en masse in NYC. If you don’t appear to live up to those standards in their estimation, you “gets no love” from them.

      Having said that, they’re also not friendly because guys are trying to kick it to them all day every day. By the time you try to talk to them as a nice guy, a thousand other guys have already approached them with the “nice guy” style and eventually revealed that they were mainly trying to get laid. NYC Chicks have too many interactions like this and eventually don’t want to hear JACK from ANY guys at all.. Unless, like you said, you work with them or they know you through other people.

  30. […] to New York City, where MILLIONS of people live, and according to disputed reports, there are 210,820 more single women than men, and it just so happens that you sit down on a couch inside a studio with SECURITY, where nobody […]

  31. sophia says:

    I don’t really agree with the article. I moved from San Francisco / the Bay Area, and although I was considered in the top 5% attractiveness there, the guys were way too scared or geeky or gay to ask women out. I get hit on/asked out in NYC WAY more often than in SF, even though there are a lot more women that are as attractive or more attractive than me. I have had no shortage of dates here, it’s a nice change — I actually think there’s a lot more guys here and the high quality girls pretty much get their pick of fairly attractive, successful, aggressive men. Interesting viewpoints though from your side — my girlfriends actually agree with me.

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Hello again, Sophia. Two interesting responses in a row! Thanks. :D

      In your other comment, you said (about offering to share payment for a date) I’ve had someone tell me, “You don’t even need to offer, I’m surprised you did, you’re pretty enough not to.”

      This means that you are a part of the PROBLEM and not the solution. You’re on the other team. You’re one of the reasons why regular-looking chicks in this town don’t have any pull.

      The ‘problem’ with a guy saying “You’re Pretty Enough To XYZ” is that if a chick ISN’T THAT PRETTY, he’s going to treat her differently. That’s my point. There are too many women here, so by sheer numbers, not percentages, there are too many good-looking women here so the only way for other women to overcome that is personality and being more of a worthwhile human being than the chick that looks great and is dumb as a box of rocks.

      Also, look what you just said: “The High Quality Girls pretty much get their pick of fairly attractive, successful, aggressive men”. That’s absolutely right. And then the other 80% of the women get what? O_o …………. See what I mean? You’re part of what the average NYC women has to overcome. All the guys at the bar are walking past her to kick it to YOU! You’re not on her team. You don’t get to speak for her. :D

      High Quality Girls can get anything they want because guys want to hook up with you. Period. Go do a “Shallow Hal” experiment. Do your best to make yourself look busted and then go out on the town and see what happens for you. :D

      Attractive people get more stuff. That’s how life works. What I’m talking about here is the women that don’t realize they’re in the middle of the pack instead of at the top. They’re wondering why guys don’t kick it to them and it’s because those dudes are too busy running around after you and your girlfriends.

      Look around next time you go out and see if there aren’t 3-5 guys surrounding ONE good-looking chick and meanwhile, a pack of mediocre chicks standing there talking amongst themselves. Look in the restaurants and see if you don’t see packs of chicks eating together with no men in sight. Walk down the street and see if you don’t see packs of women shuffling around aimlessly.

      None of these gals are going to overpower High Quality Females with looks, so their only chance is to do the best they can, visually, and make up the difference with a stellar personality that makes guys want to spend time with THEM again instead of taking his chances that he might pull a hotter chick next time he goes out.

      • sophia says:

        Also, I did do a “shallow hal” experiment — it doesn’t really matter if I’m post-workout & gross, no makeup. I think what guys pick up on is my attitude more than just my appearance.

        • Bill Cammack says:

          I’m trying to follow you on this “Attitude over Appearance” thing.. I really am. :D

          The problem is that for the most part, guys don’t want to **** attitude. They like your face. They like your hair. They like how you walk. They like how your sweatpants show off the outline of your ass. They like how there aren’t any panty-lines pressed against your sweats, indicating a thong or no underwear at all…

          I just can’t see a dude DETECTING that you have such-and-such an attitude and going “Damn… I’d like to hook up with HER so I could experience all that ATTITUDE! :D” haha I mean, it’s possible but that’s not my personal experience of life. I’ve NEVER had a dude point out a chick’s attitude to me.. EVAR.

          Having said that.. Attitude can definitely be attractive, assuming that her primary looks are good enough for you to notice her / be interested in her in the first place. There’s always something intriguing about a confident woman. You want to know WHY she feels the way she does about herself. What’s so good about HER that she’s struttin’ her stuff?

          Lots of times, it’s just that a chick listened to her Beyonce CD so many times that she believed the hype and there’s no substance behind her style whatsoever. :D

          • Christine says:

            Bill, Sophia is right about “attitude,” in my opinion. And I’ll bet you HAVE been drawn in inextricably by this alluring energy so let’s try a different descriptor…feeling sexually ON. Like attracts like. Most women know that as soon as a (good) lover comes along after any dry spell that every man within twenty feet of her is going to sense it and…hit on her. It is magic. From the time you get up out of bed or wherever with your new exiting lover and leave his side men will notice you. More. Probably pheromones but I’m sure we walk differently and smooth our hair differently and have more relaxed smiles. The recent good sex memories flash like strobe lights in our brains, facilitating attitude, and our HAWT scores go up.It makes you like our face and hair more than if we didn’t have that thing going on. When it rains, it pours!

            • Bill Cammack says:

              Agreed. It’s obvious when a female isn’t being handled properly “in the bedroom”.

              I’m not saying that a positive or fun or sexy attitude isn’t attractive and can’t bring up a less-physically-attractive female’s net worth.

              I’m saying that it’s a common misconception that women have to dress up to be perceived as sexy by men. A hundred million gazillion times, I’ve had to listen to “But I had on sweatpants”, “But I didn’t have on makeup”, “But I was sweaty”, “But my hair wasn’t done”, “But I was wearing a hoodie”, blah blah blah blah blah when none of that matters. We can very clearly see “through” clothes by the way they hang from y’all’s bodies and what parts move when you walk and what parts don’t.

              We can tell if you have a nice ass or not. We can tell if we like your hair or not. We can tell if we think you’re cute without makeup. We can tell if we like the way you walk. We can tell we like your accent…

              It’s actually WORSE if y’all are dressed down and we want you because it’s like “If that chick actually hooked herself up, she’d be SLAMMIN!!! :O”.

              We can tell whether you’re a well-mannered lady or a CRUMB by your reaction when we hold the door open for you. There are so many things about y’all that you have ZERO control over but you think you do. You THINK that you get attention BECAUSE you put on a miniskirt. You THINK it’s because you put nice-looking shoes on and painted black around your eyes. You think that NOT doing those things makes you immune and/or undetectable and it’s just not the truth.

          • sophia says:

            The beauty of this attitude (that my plain friend has down pat since I’ve asked her about it) is that it works whether she gets all the guys she wants or not.

            If she gets the guy she was looking for, it’s like, obviously he wanted me, everyone wants me (but not in an arrogant way). If she doesn’t, she doesn’t care very much because it’s his loss and she KNOWS there’s a bazillion guys who are coming along right around the corner. It’s kind of an “abundance” mentality — that the guys are always going to be there and they’re always going to like her. And they are, and they usually do.

            It seems like whatever your frame of reference is comes true. Which is why I worry about your blog making women scared & seeing issues everywhere that aren’t really issues. There’s enough women who are worried about the lack of dating in NY, and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, take yourself. Even in the face of evidence that there are way more women in NYC based on the population map (ladies from 20-40), and that they’re not that attractive (based on comments from the male readers), you say it doesn’t matter since there’s enough of them that who cares? Um, you should since the numbers don’t lie. But your beliefs are that women are the ones who are losing out in NYC, and there’s a bunch of them left for you. You said it yourself: the guys who are complaining there aren’t enough women in NYC are the ones who aren’t getting any women. That’s true, but I would argue it’s because they believe that there aren’t any women. That is their worldview.

            Because to be quite honest, my experience is the direct opposite of what you say. There are gazillions of guys and I don’t see them not continuing to ask me out (or my plainer friend) all the time. But we don’t think there’s a man shortage. And statistically, we’re totally right.

            There’s of course a correlation with this mentality and having the traits that the opposite sex likes (except for my plain friend, of course), but it becomes a question of chicken and the egg: do these women who get all the attention get it because they like themselves first? Or do they like themselves and then get all this attention? I think the two go together a lot of the time.

            • Bill Cammack says:

              Again… I’m going to do a post ASAP about actually good dating tips for women.

              Without being around your friend, there’s no telling what’s actually sexy about her. I know an overweight chick that what’s sexy about her personality is that she’s a TROOPER for her man. She’s the type of girl that’s gonna go all out for you and that’s a respectable trait which inspires a guy to want the best for her and inspires him to DO for her.

              I know another overweight chick that what’s sexy about her is her class & style, the way she dresses and carries herself.. Also, her cheery demeanor. She always seems to be having fun. That’s a lovable quality. :)

              All this stuff is gonna get y’all in the door to try to sell the encyclopedias, but getting a guy and retaining a guy, especially for an exclusive relationship, are two entirely different things.

              • sophia says:

                I sent you photos of my friend, her hot boyfriend that she’s been with for 2 years now, myself, and our girlfriends that she constantly hangs out with. None of the things you’ve said so far have really applied to her, so I’d like to see what you can come up with now that you have a photo. You are really having a tough time accepting that it’s just her attitude, aren’t you?

              • Bill Cammack says:

                Pictures are all well & good and I have a decent idea of her physical appearance & presentation, but I can’t tell how she walks, how she smells, or what it ‘means’ (if anything) when she looks at you without being in her physical presence.

                Being an empath, I get a lot more about “Who she is” from being in her presence, which is one of the reasons I don’t bother with online dating. I can see from a picture that this chick is FOYINE or not, but that doesn’t come close to indicating what experiencing her IRL is like.

                You described her relatively accurately. She’s definitely the LAST ONE out of your posse that “Could Get It”. (“It” being Tha Dilznick) However.. You’ve assessed her RELATIVE to your girlfriends and not the overall population. By your description, I considered her to be a 2 or 3 when she’s actually a 5 if I were to personally rate your posse as 6s to 9s (on a scale from 1-10, with 10 being the most attractive). Her looks aren’t going to get her any raps at the bar, hehe.

                One advantage she has is that she’s clearly ethnic. I can tell you from personal experience that it ALWAYS pays off to be perceived as different from the posse you hang out with AND the general population y’all normally socialize with.

                Another plus is that she has a genuine smile and seems to be a nice person. After jumping in the ring and duking it out with chicks that are hawt but think they’re all that, it’s a refreshing change to not have to prove or defend yourself in a conversation and just spend time CHILLIN’, like guys & gals are supposed to do.

                You’re also right that she doesn’t seem to exude sexuality.. sensuality neither, actually. I really can’t see guys stepping to her for that other than on the exotic tip like “I’m always kickin’ it with white girls, let me interact with this ‘other’ chick for a change”.

                She doesn’t overdo it with the jewelry, which is good because it indicates that she doesn’t just toss money away, meaning she’s not likely to frivolously spend YOUR money for no good reason.

                Her style of dress seems to be modest and unstylish to boot. It’s sometimes good to get your hands on chicks that are completely out of touch with fashion because they’re most likely thinking differently and not just another drone that follows the trends. It’s like when you go to a ‘regular’ party and ONE punk-rock chick shows up. :D You’re dying to talk to her because even though she looks corny, she’s representing her own style and you might get something out of the ordinary from interacting with her.

                Another reason she would get more raps is that she’s way less visually intimidating than the rest of your posse. With 5s, it’s like first of all, you don’t expect her to reject you and second of all, if she does, who cares? \o/

                You’re not gambling much, stepping to a 5. It’s something to do. You’re spending time. She might be cool. She probably has better-looking girlfriends around here somewhere. She definitely doesn’t qualify as a DUFF because she doesn’t have that overbearing hater presence.

                DUFFs have to be on the case when a guy kicks it to one of the attractive chicks in the group so she can effectively cockblock. Your homegirl seems too pleasant to be a DUFF because jealousy & envy are critical characteristics and she seems to be enjoying her life too much to be concerned with whether some other guy gets on one of her girls or not.

                As far as your overall point, I can’t tell a lot about her personality from pictures, but given the choice between her physical appearance and, let’s say KNOWING that she’s confident or has a great personality or whatever and selecting ANY of the other chicks in your posse and taking THE CHANCE that one of them MIGHT be a decent human being, I really cant’ tell you why a guy wouldn’t gamble on one of your other friends instead of going for the “sure thing”, personality-wise.

                Thanks for sharing! :D

  32. sophia says:

    Well, what I’ve found is that every guy has a sort of bar of attractiveness and if you are above it, you’re golden. So if his bar is an 8 for a relationship and you’re a 10, well, great. But you’re also good if you’re an 8 or a 9. But below that? It doesn’t matter if you’re mother theresa & rachel ray rolled into one, he’s not going to be interested. So I’m not sure how a girl is supposed to overcome that bar using her personality to get guys initially attracted to them (but I haven’t read the rest of your articles so maybe you have some good strategies, I don’t know).

    But I mean, of course guys aren’t just looking at your attractiveness. Once you pass that bar, the 8 and the 10 are essentially the same and the guy uses other things to evaluate how good you are on the relationship front: intelligence, character, etc. But being a 10 gives you more options (more guys that are initially interested) than being a 5, for example. And I think if the guy was pretty off in relation to a hot girl, he’d most likely put up with a lot of crap from her because she was further up the scale (like a 5 guy overall — looks, confidence, status, etc — dating a 9 girl). I think I’m pretty right on this, correct me though if you think I’m off.

    I think one thing a lot of women are missing in this city is femininity, in my humble opinion. I am just as career-oriented as anyone else, but you have to turn that aggressiveness down a notch sometimes.

  33. sophia says:

    I also think sometimes women don’t understand why they don’t have relationships with the men they want because they evaluate their potential by their hookups. A 5 woman can try for a 9 man, and in the casual sex game, she can land him. She will not land him for a relationship. I’m not sure but I think a lot of 5 women can land 90% of the men out there for something really casual. This leads them to inflate their own value in the dating market.

    The vision is likely a lot clearer for you guys. You all want the 9s, but it’s a rare woman who will date significantly downward. Not a lot of gray area there, so guys know what they’re “worth” in a more concrete way.

    That is to say I think a lot of women have a real problem with the cognitive dissonance of being desired sexually by just about every man, but only being relationship material with a small percentage. I think men’s standards for casual sex are quite low but they get pretty damn picky when it comes to relationships.

    I have girlfriends that are like this — even extremely hot ones that you could classify as 10s. They’re hooking up with the best guy in New York or whatever, he’s got all the bells & whistles (smart, good looking, charismatic, wealthy, interesting, etc), and she doesn’t realize that since he is that good, why does he just want to be with her (ie, he’s priced out of the market for a relationship entirely)? The answer is that he doesn’t — he’s got Tiger Woods syndrome but is smart enough to realize he shouldn’t get tied down until he’s ready.

    This would get me killed if I were to talk about it with my friends, who like deluding themselves, but do you think I’m right?

  34. sophia says:

    I can’t believe I’m still posting, I need to go to sleep, but the last thing I wanted to say is that the more attractive girls don’t necessarily have it easier. The same dating issues & anxiety still happens to attractive girls, it just happens with different guys. Instead of average Joe bartender, it’s average Joe investment banker or CEO.

    The game where girls get left after they have sex happens more often to more attractive girls, because there’s much more chance that that’s all the guy was interested in in the first place. They also are more likely to get the assholes who think they’re entitled to everything under god’s green earth hitting on them (these guys are also very manipulative & charming, they pretend to be nice at first). Attractive girls get screwed over just as much, if not more, than unattractive girls if you don’t know how to play the game.

  35. Bill Cammack says:

    Sophia,

    I agree entirely with your “bar of attractiveness” idea. If a chick doesn’t have the right look, she doesn’t show up on the radar at all.

    My only tactic for less-attractive females is to be introduced through friends. You’re right that they can’t go to a bar and “Mother Teresa” their way into a guy being interested in them.

    Basically, they have to act like dudes and back-door their way in. Guys become friends with girls that are “out of their league”, hoping to make their mark on her and have her see that even though he’s a 5, he’s funny and he has a kind heart and excellent earning potential… Sometimes, those guys get lucky and score a date or even a girlfriend out of the situation.

    That’s my point for women in this town. There are too many women that look just like you or better than you and guys are going to be all over them just like they’re all over you, if not more so. The differentiator’s going to be your way of being, not your looks, and CERTAINLY not scarcity of females in NYC like you might enjoy in the sticks, where you, Suzie Mae and Betty Jean are the only three attractive chicks for the entire male population to select from.

    As you’ve said.. Being a 10 definitely gives you more options AND makes you way more of a target. I may never forget this one time I saw this dude with this chick and I was like WOW!!! I *KNOW* HE PAID FOR *THAT*!!! :D haha I mean the chick was clearly at least an escort and probably an actual hooker.

    The reason I mention that is that top-level chicks are seen as hard to hold, because guys are always going to be coming after your girl and there’s no reason for her to turn down free stuff from every single guy that wants to do something for her, buy her something or take her somewhere. Chicks like that, you have fun with them while you can afford it and then when you can’t, it’s over and it’s good memories.. not meaning hookers, meaning insanely-attractive gals that are eventually going to sell out for something more than you’re offering them.

    As far as the guy being a 5 and trying to pull a 9, that’s where money comes in. Guys can offset their looks with perks. Cars, Apartments, Yachts, Money.. So long as you can still afford her and she’s the type of chick to give it up for money, you’re in there like Belvedere. And, Yes.. He would put up with a ton of garbage from her because nobody cares what she thinks, so long as he can still enjoy her physically & visually. It’s part of the payments for her services, like the actual money and gifts.

    Of course women are missing femininity here. Society has spent the last X years trying to turn women into men (as well as men into women, but that’s a different topic), so nobody’s teaching women how to be LADIES! O_o

    That’s actually another thing that will get a woman ahead in the game here.. That she enjoys being a woman and not some wannabe-dude. That’s one of the reasons why corporate chicks lose their boyfriends to minimum-wage burger-flipping females. The McDonald’s chick is bringing way more to the table visually, sensually and sexually. You can’t defeat that with a degree from a good college and massive earning potential.

    I also agree with you that women tend to confuse hookups with beginnings of relationships. If he hit it, it’s because he felt like hittin’ it. It doesn’t mean he thinks anything of you as a person AT ALL, much less considering you to be his girlfriend, fiancee or wife. It also doesn’t mean you’re the only girl he had sex with this week or the only girl he had sex with TODAY.

    I’ll also paraphrase one of your topics as “Women have a problem with being able to see themselves objectively with regard to their looks”. I find this amazing when I watch The Maury Show and there’s a girl sitting there that’s obviously a 2, if not a 1, and then she’s shocked and amazed to find out her man’s ******* other girls as often as humanly possible. Absolutely Amazing! :D

    It’s like basically, unless the guy’s actually into you in particular, the only girls you can block are the ones LESS ATTRACTIVE THAN YOU ARE. You can’t even block equally-attractive girls like your twin sister. If your moms looks good, hide her too. :)

    But yeah.. They completely overestimate their value in the dating market. You might be a pitcher for The Yankees, but that doesn’t make you the ONLY pitcher for The Yankees. That doesn’t even make you the BEST pitcher for The Yankees. Unfortunately, women are easily faked out by guys telling them that they’re in exclusive, monogamous relationships with them. It’s best for the gals’ egos to believe the guy’s telling the truth. It’s also best for her ego if she believes that her sex is better than the next woman’s and that she’s somehow got her man sprung and riding her bra strap.

    Agreed that there’s no reason for women to date significantly downward, because the more attractive a gal is, the more stuff’s going to be thrown at her by every guy that sees her. As you pointed out, they’re not courting her for a romantic relationship.. They see some azz they’d like to tap, and they’re willing to pay whatever the cost is to make that happen. Unfortunately for hotter women, they’re seen as outside of the price range of a lot of nice guys and that just leaves the Hunters to come after them and see what they can do.

    Overall, the deal is that there’s no reason whatsoever for a guy to be in a “relationship” unless he’s looking for a wife. If he IS looking for a wife, he’s going to attempt to select an extraordinary female, looks-wise AND personality-wise. Chicks that are below his visual bar don’t even count as chicks unless they can somehow become introduced to this guy and show him that they’re viable candidates and make up for their lack of looks in other ways.

    The major mistake women make on this topic is that they think guys are looking for girlfriends to begin with. What do you need a girlfriend for if you have charisma and live in a town with literally a million females in it? So guys here are basically looking to have a good time and hook up with chicks. There are more girls in the next booth over. There are more girls in the bar next door. There are more girls in the pizza shop on the corner. There are more girls in the subway. There are more girls tomorrow and the day after that…

    That’s why y’all have to depend on something other than looks if you want a guy to remember you and consider you a viable candidate *IF* he decides he wants a girlfriend at all.

  36. sophia says:

    Great, I agree with everything you agreed with :)

    Now I’m wondering what the best way is for a girl to get feedback on what she could improve about her appearance. I think a lot of guys can identify what they like, but how do you get them to tell you what you should be doing if you’re not (if they even know), or even to be honest with you in the first place?

    I’m always trying to improve, and I’m wondering how you can go about getting some real feedback about things you can change (no stuff like your eyes are too close together or your torso is short, for example). But I’m talking hairstyle, body, clothing, accessories, makeup, etc. What do you recommend?

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Somehow, I didn’t reply to this comment…

      I should be #1 for Dress Your Girlfriend [Google Search]

      I think the best way for a gal to get good information is to ask a guy that a) has her best interests at heart, and b) is part of the set of guys that she’d like to kick it to or would like to have kick it to her.

      For instance, you don’t want to ask a hip-hop guy what you should wear if you want to meet wall street guys and vice versa.

      Some guys like long hair, some guys like short hair, some guys like the type of hair that makes her look the best for whatever her personality is.

      The reason I wrote “How To Dress Your Girlfriend” was because I found it weird that there were girls that swore up and down that their boyfriends wouldn’t be able to be fashion consultants for them. That’s retarded because it has to be Every. Single. Day. that we’re like “That chick jacked up her look with those saggy jeans” or “Why doesn’t she do anything with her hair other than let it just hang like that” or “Yo.. If I could put her in the gym for a few months??? >:D” or get her to stop eating so much greasy food or stop putting so many ridiculous layers of paint on her face or stop dressing like her grandmother or stop mixing styles (half business, half sporty)..

      Dudes have commentary on how chicks look every single day, so you shouldn’t have any problems finding one or several that are willing to give you an honest, useful critique.

  37. Sophia,
    You are astute, a keen observer, plus you have the benefit of seeing/listening to other women in the gym setting. You know what their strong suits and weaknesses are. I think someone stole your laptop and wrote that request for recommendations on pleasing hairstyle, clothing, accessories and make up. You sound too confident in previous posts to write that. Plus you are a great speller!!
    If you like what you see in the mirror it is probably all good!!! And with make up and accessories, isn’t less always more????

    • sophia says:

      Thanks Christine. I appreciate the comment. I in general am a very confident person (you could tell if you saw me walking down the street), but I am the first to admit I’m not 100% on my game all the time. I am always trying to be better, and this was one of those times when it translated into lack of self-esteem. You’re completely right to call me on it, I try to have as few of those as possible. :)

  38. Derek says:

    Wow, Bill. I said earlier that this topic has legs, but I was never EVER thinking millipede legs! Like an army’s worth of millipedes!

    I’ve read most of the comments, rebuttals, accusations, realizations, and unbelievable truethiness. And I’ll add this:

    Bill is the ultimate realist in the dating/relationship war. I’ve known (of) him for years now, and he doesn’t seem like a mean spirited guy.

    What he is is a “nice smart” guy in an unique environment (NYC) with a unique view on dating. Not everyone is like that AND a lot of his rules – even HE says that – don’t work in other environments.

    If Bill were to move to San Diego or Houston or maybe Chicago, most of his stuff would fail like a Sarah Palin at a Black Panther convention (although SHE might learn a few thangs).

    Bill is being the typical guy: straight forward, truthful (to a sharp point), and, with a private convo, a little non-emotional about this situ. He’s in a target RICH environment, and HE is setting HIS agenda to serve HIS purpose.

    As another guy, I don’t think that is (all that) bad. It’s works for him – works extremely well considering the photos on facebook.

    I think some of things he’s done with respect to women – listen – are a bit rude in the “I’m a human”, but put in a “let’s find worthy dating material in this HUGE city of NY” may be right on the money. Life is short and he’s got things to do – as do a lot of the women (couple of women?) that have been keeping this thread alive.

    Take his advice, not as an attack on you, but like a church sermon – pull out the pearls or wisdom that may apply to you or your friends.

  39. Christine says:

    That’s exactly right, Derek. I took his advice, and now I’m a convert!!! I have seen the light that eluded me during all those delightful/painful years of societally induced delirium, and NOW I can double jump rope AND have clear understanding of the game and not.be.duped.
    Thanks Bill! Thanks everyone!

  40. […] the East Coast; Single Men in the West On a scale of 1 to 10, how do rate the NYC dating scene? Women’s Guide to NYC Dating | Bill Cammack Dating in NY Sucks | New York | Yelp New York City – Readers Comments – Page 7 – AskMen.com […]

  41. […] a follow-up to my 2008 post “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”, I’d like to offer the ladies some of my top tips for those of y’all that are currently […]

  42. […] a follow-up to my 2008 post “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”, I’d like to offer the ladies some of my top tips for those of y’all that are currently […]

  43. […] a follow-up to my 2008 post “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”, I’d like to offer the ladies some of my top tips for those of y’all that are currently […]

  44. […] a follow-up to my 2008 post “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”, I’d like to offer the ladies some of my top tips for those of y’all that are currently […]

  45. […] a follow-up to my 2008 post “Women’s Guide to NYC Dating”, I’d like to offer the ladies some of my top tips for those of y’all that are currently […]

  46. Loreyla says:

    HAHAHHAHAHA!

    Bill, you are a legend! I had SUCHHHH a hearty laugh reading this!! You were spot on about us “pretend anorexic’s” who binge the entire Chinese Deli below our apt’s as soon as the date is over, gossiping about “ohmigod he was soo much nicer that the other jerk” with our best friend on the phone, while stuffing our faces with microwaved chicken sausages and/or honeyoats and nutella.

    Though, how do YOU know about this? Did you sneakily stalk a girl and, much to your horror saw such a situation?

    • Bill Cammack says:

      haha Thanks, Loreyla. Glad you enjoyed! :D

      Nah, no sneaky stalking! :P See.. What had *HAPPENED* was…

      The women that know me know that I hang out like a business. I don’t make plans to “have dinner” with a chick or “go see a movie” or something.. It’s we get together at X time and then we chill until one of us wants to do something else or one of us is about to fall asleep.

      So all that “Sneak off to the local Chinese food spot” stuff isn’t going to work because if you eat a couple of leaves of lettuce, your ass is going to get HUNGRY AGAIN before you get rid of me. Then you’re going to start getting fidgety and cranky and looking at other people’s food with those lost puppy eyes, like “If only I had that hotdog right thurrrr :(”

      So that’s why I tell gals all the time that they’d better stop fakin’ the funk and EAT when they’re hungry because they’re gonna need the energy for later… >:D

  47. […] Especially here in NYC, it’s very tough for women to meet men that they’re satisfied with. […]

  48. […] fact, this adds to the superficial nature of dating in NYC. Not only are there way more women than men here, but the guys already have women we enjoy spending […]

  49. […] comes into play if you don’t live in a place like New York City where there are 210,820 more single women than men. If you don’t have infinite female turnover, it makes sense to select the best chick you can […]

  50. […] is one of the reasons why in a town where there are way more women than men, the concept of playing hard to get doesn’t go over so well. It takes much less time and […]

  51. Derek says:

    Wow, Bill. This is what I call a Perputual dialog blog. If you left it here for 100

    years, people would STILL be adding to it then.

    I don’t know Bill IRL, but I have read his stuff and commented on and had dialog with my

    brother for a bunch of years.

    While I’ve always found his ideas to be inciting – as in pissing people off – whenever I

    boil it down, he is always right (or very close to it :-) )

    But, the way to address him is to step back, look at the BIG BIG BIG BIG picture – and

    THEN, he makes perfect sense.

    Bill is a realist, living in a realist city. I’ve always wondered how he do in a city

    like Houston or San Francisco or Tampa, where the “target of opportunity” aren’t so

    plentiful!

    But, ladies – take off the defensive gear and put on your Psyche hat! Bill is trying to

    educate – from a “man’s” perspective, infused with ALL of his own experience and examples

    and mindset.

    Dating is a GAME. Think of it as a maze: you start at one end, and you go thru all the

    turns and bends, avoiding the pitfalls, reversing your course, changing directions

    countless and countless times – till you come to the end.

    Some guys are straight lines. Some guys are three dimensional mazes with black holes and

    time warps and multiple realities, and…. you get my point.

    What Bill is saying is – some guys will NEVER let you out of the maze or the maze HAS no

    ending. If you enter THOSE mazes, don’t think you’ll finish – you’ll be utterly

    disappointed. OR…if you DO enter them, go along with the ride – might be a fun one –

    but, alas, with no endpoint.

    Again, I’ve not met Bill in IRL, but I (think :-) ) respect him immensely as a friend and

    brother. But I have a slight advantage – I’m on HIS team.

    Y’all are on the OTHER team (women that is).

    Step to Bill, and you better be ready to choose sides. With him, it’s easy. Against him –

    well, remember that movie “Sparta”?

    ANYWHO… this is how you read Bill’s posts and comments: Come at it with NO baggage (not

    said in a condescending tone). Bring your thinking caps. Don’t get mad because it slaps

    you in your face going against everything your believe. AND!!! Think about what he’s

    saying from a GRAND SCHEME, and not directed to solely one individual.

    Mostly, Bill is on the extreme male end with his thoughts on dating, ’cause like he says,

    he gets everything he wants. Reading between the lines – he does NOT want a bunch of

    stuff, so if he avoids/conflicts/doesn’t obtain it – no big deal. If you are a conflict

    to Bill, see ya! No time/little time wasted in books – moving on.

    Another analogy – hunting buffalo (NYC style!). Guys are the hunter. Y’all are the

    hunted. What some guys want are the easy targets – close to us, not moving much, showing

    a huge target. Some of “you” fit that desciption. BANG! Others, who are more clever and

    crafty SEE the hunter, knows what he’s after, and slips away to safety.

    The main problem with this dialog is: men aren’t black and white and women aren’t black

    and white. There are shades of grey in the middle.

    Bill is saying it ain’t a rainbow, and sometimes things just are a encouraging as they are made out to be. Sooner everyone (not just women) realizes that, the better off mentally they’ll be.

    Peace!

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Thanks, Derek! haha :D

      You’ve most definitely been down with the blog since the very beginning, which I totally appreciate. :D

      So long as it sparks conversation and gets people to think, I’m totally down for the understandings, the misunderstandings, all of it! :D

  52. Tatiana says:

    Bill, I want a boyfriend. Do i need to move out of NYC

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Hey Tatiana. :)

      Strangely enough, that’s a really good question.

      In general, the answer is “No. You don’t have to move out of NYC”.

      That assumes that you’re willing to kick it with the guys that actually want to be in a relationship with you.

      I know a lot of women that have entirely unrealistic expectations for the type of guy they’re able to pull, and way more importantly, keep… Any guy that falls below their standards of looks, salary, car, apartment, whatever, they don’t consider that dude AT ALL for a “serious” relationship.

      Meanwhile, there are a lot of guys that would like them, maybe even love them, maybe even remain sexually faithful to them if she would take him seriously.

      So what happens is that all these women throw themselves at the same guys. The guys that get all the attention have no interest in selecting one of y’all because y’all are always throwing sex at him anyway. There’s no point in having only one girlfriend when you can have as many as you can meet.

      So, No.. You don’t have to move out of NYC to get a boyfriend, but like Patti Stanger from Millionaire Matchmaker said, everyone here’s looking for the Bigger, Better Deal. It’s always “This person has X, but this other person has X and Y and this third person has X, Y and Z” and there are too may people here doing too many things to know where you really stand, or how much someone’s actually interested in you or devoted to you.

      So, Yeah.. if you’re willing to put your best foot forward, meet guys and retain an open mind as far as whether you’re trying to get involved in an authentic, loving relationship or you’re trying to meet a guy that makes more money than you do and has a better apartment, you’ll be ahead of the game, because a lot of women write guys off just from looking at them and cry and complain when the guys they throw themselves at won’t commit to them because her sister and her mother’s throwin’ it at him, too.

      • fishingrod says:

        Hi Bill,

        what you write makes a lot of sense. When I was still single, I always tried not to crush on the too-good-looking guys because the ones that look good are usually aware of it, and that does not help build character.

        But then again…. Does this theory imply that any guy, just any guy, if he is just good looking and rich enough, can be corrupted and transformed into a player by the way women react to him?

        Wouldn’t that mean that you all are just clay that is formed into personalities by …. us?
        Does that mean that the faithful husband-type is only faithful because he has no other options?

        Thinking about it this way somehow makes me want to join a monastery…

        • Bill Cammack says:

          hmm.. You bring up very good questions that need to form their own post, Fishingrod. :)

          The short answer is that men most definitely are molded by their experiences with women, early on.

          That doesn’t mean that women/girls are ACTIVE participants in that process, although y’all could be.

          I’m going to try to write this soon. Will link when I do! ;)

      • steve says:

        Tatiana, I think Bill’s response is true and I’ll add that guys outside of the city might be more willing to “put in an effort” because they’re from an environment where there are more men than women and there isn’t a constant turnover of temporary resident females to suffer bad behavior. Most definitely a dude’s rep will follow him around instead of being forgotten in the shuffle of fresh bodies, especially since a lot of meetings would most likely be through people you already know. The upside of a static population.

        You probably don’t have to move out of the city but you might want to keep yourself open to the idea of dating someone from the burbs.

        • Bill Cammack says:

          Steve has two excellent points about NYC dating.

          First of all, there’s so much turnover here that even if we don’t get the rap to 20 women in one week (or one weekend), the very next week, there are 20 more of y’all that we’ve never seen before in life that we like just as much and would be just as interested in for dating or hookup purposes.

          There’s no real incentive to “work anything out” or deal with strange personality quirks that y’all might have. It’s just “oh well. \o/” and on to the next chick, seamlessly.

          Second, once you’re gone, you’re GONE. It’s like ghosts. It’s not like the sticks where we have to keep running into you, your friends, your mother and your aunt at the general store.

          Unless we decide to remain in touch with each other, it’s like you never existed.

          Whatever reputation you build with a gal, good or bad, it all disappears and we start all over from scratch with the new girl. There’s no such thing as relationship histories or the ability of one gal to run down a list of the girls you’ve fallen in love with and back out of love with, dated, hooked up with, or pumped & dumped.

          Probably the best thing about NYC dating is women that don’t live here! :D

          I don’t mean the tourists, but more so the transplants from the sticks. They’re not emotionally weather-beaten, like NYC women that have had to deal with this practically-impossible-to-win dating scenario here.

          The fact of the matter is that there’s no reason for a guy to choose one female unless he finds her amazingly extraordinary http://billcammack.com/2008/04/19/6-reasons-new-york-city-is-the-neverland-of-dating-for-da-fellaz/. This leads to a lot of women seeming to progress in relationships and then suddenly getting dumped when they think they’re getting close to exclusivity. There’s just no point in it unless you meet a gal that you actually think is not only unique, but UNIQUE ENOUGH that you’re not planning to spend an evening with a gal that you accidentally meet this afternoon because she bumped into you or sat down next to you on the subway.

          • Susan says:

            You are all missing the point: the inherent essence and ultimate POINT of romance and love and relationships is the natural flow, comfort and mutual valuing and protecting/nurturing of the other. When the environment is chaotic, the soul is chaotic. Unless you’re some spiritually advanced being. Like some of us. Who move out of this godforsaken hellhole.

            Oh yeah, and everywhere else (besides L.A.) you don’t live like a rat in a box surrounded by criminals and players either.

            good luck everyone,

            -the woman who finally found the first boyfriend she likes EVER after 34 years in the NYC metro 3 MONTHS IN AFTER MOVING TO THE MIDWEST.

            p.s. He is 2 inches shorter than me, average looking, like the men i dated in New York, except he’s super smart, mature, and treats me like a queen, every moment is fun, fun, fun!!!!

            • Bill Cammack says:

              The point that’s being missed is that you’re the one that cares about romance and love. The guy cares about getting laid. The guy cares about having a hawt chick on his arm. The guy cares about not hearing drama.

              Most of my points in my dating blogs are centered around the fact that women and men enter The Game looking for two different things and then we trick each other into giving that up.

              Guys will pretend to be in love with chicks so they’ll lay down. Gals will lay down with guys, hoping they’ll end up in some kind of retirement situation with them as a LTR.

              Unless both people come to the table with the same vision, somebody has to win and somebody has to lose.

              What the NYC environment does is it stacks up too many women that look just about exactly the same, or to put it another way, they’re all as physically attractive as each other… There’s no reason to choose one exclusively, because hooking up with another one is essentially the same experience.

              That’s why my tips for women are personality-based. You’re never going to be the most attractive woman in a city of MILLIONS of women. Your best bet is to bring more to the table, personality-wise, so that he sees you as unique and a catch and wants to focus his time and energy on a relationship with you.

              As far as your meeting a guy in the sticks that you enjoy, that’s great! :D I’m happy for you.. honestly. :)

              Meanwhile, you’re adding to my point. If you’re immediately viable as a girlfriend when you move to a limited society, it’s clearly the fact that you were in an unlimited society that was making things tough for you.

              I mean, really.. I can meet 10 women that I’ve never seen before in my life in one night in NYC and totally rearrange my roster. I can meet another 10 by going to the outlet malls over the weekend. I can meet another 10 by going to a social media gathering. There’s an endless supply of women in this town, like tap water. There’s no reason to agree to be exclusive with ANY of them.

              • Susan says:

                Thanks for your response…well I would disagree with your main point: on being ‘immediately viable as a girlfriend when you move to a limited society, it’s clearly the fact that you were in an unlimited society that was making things tough for you.’

                The trouble with this premise is that it presupposes that whether or not men are seeking relationships to begin with is simply due to the availability of hot chicks. While the statistics may be part of it (hell it’s hard for *me* to keep looking at my boyfriend sometimes when I’m overrun with young male hotties everywhere! Oh MAN is it nice to have the tables turned!) — I have a sense that alot of how men view relationships has to do also with other aspects of their environment, upbringing and individual psychology. What they learned to expect, their previous experiences and how they’ve learned to view women in general. Many men have friends who are married, or sisters and try to act in a way that would be fair to them, and are taught to treat women a certain way since they were children, and many of them try hard to keep us happy so we don’t cheat on *them*. It also has to do with how you vibe with that person, how happy you are with them and how great your connection is. It’s only logical to expect that psychology plays a part in how willing men are to commit; to discount this is the height of denial.

                Other women have brought up this point, and I will again assert that not all men are the exact same. This is pretty misandrous and I don’t buy it anymore than *all* women always love babies and romantic comedies and doing our nails while chatting about how Heidi Montag ruined her looks. Personally I’d rather kill myself. Sure I like dressing up and doing my hair but give me a book about mushrooms or a Nova episode about the ancient Mayans and I’m happy. Neither men nor women are entirely the same, not even about our sexuality or romantic desires. Some of us even *gasp!* care about having a partner!!!!!

                My boyfriend actually hasn’t dated in years, and had some qualms about ‘committing’ after being hurt a long time ago, but look how easily he fell into it after meeting me, as long as we were moving a bit slow at first. Maybe he didn’t have any interest in sleeping around with random women, maybe he’s careful and responsible, maybe he’s sensitive…maybe he sensed that I’m not going to abandon him….maybe because we’re very compatible??

        • Susan says:

          OK I dug this up for you guys ok? PLEASE READ THIS, I swear I should make a website about this.

          THE 12 REASONS NEW YORK CITY MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR WOMEN TO FIND DECENT BOYFRIENDS

          1. High population density raises everyone’s standards (better is always around the corner). Too many people: economic principle of being pickier b/c of more choices leads to inflated expectations, waiting longer to marry (statistics show people in NYC get married later on average than anyone in the country) or settle for one person in general.

          2. Also due to high population, people are not held accountable, no repercussions for their risky/immoral behavior as they would be in a small town/community, due to perceived anonymity.

          3. Surplus of women (high ratio of women to men). Spoils men, the market is flooded with us, our ‘value’ goes down. Especially when combined with #4.

          4. Fashion industry: brings in female models, gay men. Also, theatre industry: beautiful actresses, gay men. Dancers tends to be of the same demographic (young, attractive females with young, attractive but gay, men).

          5. Career-focused lifestyle/culture/people.

          6. People are passing through, not even considering settling in New York. Knowing it’s just a bridge in their career, they don’t take much of their emotional relationships seriously.

          7. Fast-paced, stressful lifestyle and cramped environments not conducive to intimacy or relationships. Sped-up pace of romance which necessarily results also, not conducive to serious relationships.

          8. Very egotistical, able people who are outstanding in some way, usually coming from small towns who’ve learned they are ‘better’ than those around them. Narcissism abounds. (And I quote from a comment on some blog, “Tons of people bring their already-overinflated egos here with them from wherever they came from, and then become raging monsters after NYC works its magic on them.”)

          9. Player culture, hookup culture, hipsters and tough independent women…all subcultures/mindsets not conducive to normalcy!

          10. People are always ‘on’ here, putting up a façade, creating a persona, or trying to ‘be somebody'; lack of willingness to be genuine, secure in one’s identity and somewhat humble keeps healthy relationships from developing.

          11. Value system places materialism, money, status, education level, career success and individual achievements over community, relationships and family. (Not entirely backwards but so entrenched and far-reaching as to really affect relationships.)

          12. All the reasons above lead to not learning relationship skills (even if you’d like one), which itself is another reason it’s impossible to find a relationship.
          ~~
          I should probably add another one, about how most all the colleges in Manhattan have an average of 70% women, I went to Hunter myself. That was an interesting little tidbit I found too.

    • Susan says:

      Tatiana,

      PLEASE READ THIS tatiana. All I can tell you is this… I just turned 35, and I look mid20s, used to model, read Russian literature and botany for fun, rite poetry, am really nice etc etc etc. Well I am a native New Yorker, have only been treated decently by one man ever besides my current boyfriend (who is amazingly awesome). OK, I have only EVER been looking for a boyfriend, never did hookups, one night stands, fwbs etc. Never dated particularly objectively attractive men. I haven’t gotten past a second date with any man since that last good boyfriend- IN THE LAST 7 YEARS. Celibate all that time. I moved to the midwest last November. havent been working, havent been getting out alot, yet i met a guy 3 months in. At a local bar no less. We’re exclusive and it’s serious couple months later.

      Moral of this story: NYC= no long term relationships, 1 decent man (Long island notthe city), no boyfriend in 7 years. MOVED TO A SMALL COLLEGE TOWN IN THE MIDWEST. At 35, have a boyfriend 4 months later. GOING STRONG, never felt this way before.

      They make them differently out here.

      Does that answer your question?

      If you cant figure it out, then let me answer your question bluntly:

      Y
      E
      S

      • Tatiana says:

        WOW! Thanks all . I do believe what each of you said is true! It is funny though how women my age ( 24-25) think moving to New York was the best thing we did to get the best of the crop and ‘love’. After 4 years most of my ( hot!) friends and I are single! The only ones who are in relationships are the girls who never had extremely high expectations to begin with!

        • Susan says:

          lol…To add a few facts, I’m 5’9″ and 108 lbs and I was born and raised in the suburbs outside of NYC, moved to Manhattan when I was 18. Didn’t start dating until I was 23 (had never once been asked out). Lived in Manhattan until I was 34. Dated maybe 5-6 guys…no one special, alot of weirdos and jerks…the only guy to treat me decently lived in Suffolk County. That was over 7 years ago and I haven’t had sex since then- hadnt gotten past a second date with anyone- until 3 months after moving to the midwest. Now with one of the first guys that actually asked me out.

          Don’t get me started on how rude and spoiled people are who *come* here (no offense to you, tatiana, Im mostly thinking of the men who vacation here or even the bridge and tunnel crowd who treat Manhattan like a college campus). My family has been in NYC for nearly a century, working, socializing, getting married and raising children. It just shouldn’t be that hard. I’m trying to get my mom to move down here when she retires…with the recession everyone in my family has been pretty much priced out and left with a generally bad taste in their mouths regarding the homeland of our ancestry. Well, I guess it’s time to move on right..

          • Sally says:

            Susan, I just wanted to tell you that I really enjoy your perspective and what you have to write! Dating in NYC SUCKS! No question about it. I know so many beautiful, educated, nice single women in NYC who can’t find a decent man. For awhile I believed there must be something fundamentally wrong with ME but apparently that isn’t the case since all the other single women aren’t having luck either. On the other hand, I have 2 sisters who met and married men in NYC so I can see it can be done. Still, they were under 30 years-old at the time of proposal so perhaps I am now just out of the age range of desirability at 36.

          • Bill Cammack says:

            Susan & Sally:

            Definitely, compared to the sticks, where there’s basically no selection of women, and you have to get what you can get while supplies last, dating for women in NYC sucks. :)

            My goal in writing this article was to give y’all tips on what actually works, as opposed to what isn’t going to work.

            Looking better than the next woman isn’t going to work in a city with millions of women, because whatever the guy finds attractive about *you*, he finds the same thing attractive about at least 100 other women.. Most of which are accessible to him via mass transit, it isn’t like he has to travel far to find the next gal he wants to hook up with.

            Online Dating makes things even worse, because guys can sit behind their computers and window-shop until they ping women they find aesthetically pleasing and throw their hats in the ring.

            My point is that y’all have to have your looks and sex game on-point, but that only gets you in the door. That puts you on The Roster, not in any type of exclusive position that’s going to block out other women in this town.

      • Bill Cammack says:

        Hey Tatiana. :)

        Susan’s experiences speak to my points in the article.

        You don’t HAVE to move out of NYC to get a boyfriend, but you do have to realize that if you’re here, you’re in MAJOR competition with every gal in the same train car with you.. every cal in the other 9 train cars, every gal on every other train in the city, every gal waiting on the platform, every gal on the bus, every gal in every McDonald’s or Wendy’s…

        Like you said.. your homegirls are HAWT and they’re 24 years old. Anywhere else in the country (other than Los Angeles, from what I’ve heard), y’all should all be ballin’.

        Personally.. I can’t walk to the corner store without seeing a chick that I’d hook up with. What’s the point in telling some gal that you’re in an exclusive relationship with her?

        I mean, you can do it.. You can lie to her and tell her she’s your girlfriend and keep living the single life like you always were, but I’m talking about ACTUAL commitment. Like, ACTUALLY not messing with other chicks.

        As hot as you and your friends are, there are hotter chicks right down the street from you. There are richer chicks right down the street. There are chicks that do more sexually than you do right down the street. The only thing that’s going to get a guy to commit to you is going to be your personality and how your mind works.

        You can’t offer him *ANYTHING* that he can’t get from the chick sitting next to you on the subway… And I’m talking about Herbs. I’m not even talking about guys that can pull women at will.

        If you’re willing to give it up on the fourth date, http://billcammack.com/2010/02/26/is-sex-expected-on-the-fourth-date/ there’s a gal that’s willing to give it up on the third. There’s a gal that’s DTF as soon as she meets him, which we witnessed when Jersey Shore used to be worth watching.

        Dudes will nod in your face and act like they’re going to wait for you to decide to get with the program, but we’re not. We’re going to do whatever we want while we wait for you to come around. By the time you elect to do that, you already gave up your high position on the totem pole.

        It’s the same thing for guys, really. Women know there are so many guys in this town that they don’t have to deal with guys that don’t meet their “extremely high expectations”.

        Eventually, y’all have to decide whether you want to be single with a dream or in a relationship with a guy that kicked it to you that you considered sub-par.

        Does it EVER work out that a gal in NYC lands exactly the type of guy she wants for an EXCLUSIVE relationship? Sure. The odds are severely against it, however, unless you’re demonstrating some type of unique personality traits that cause him to feel like giving up his infinite opportunities with the millions of other women here.

  53. […] “Susan” left quite a lengthy comment on my post Women’s Guide To NYC Dating, so I decided to make my response to her its own post […]

    • tracey says:

      Bill, I’m a NYC dating coach and I like your advice about how important it is for women to be nice, athletic and to always look good. I’m also happy to hear that you are having a great time dating. But I wanted to point out to all of the single ladies that there are still MILLIONS of single men in the greater NY metropolitan area, there isn’t a shortage of men! The population is about 52% women and 48% men. The reason there are so many more single women here is because there are so many more single PEOPLE here.

  54. […] There are too many women here. Keep it movin’, and kick it to a chick that already likes what you’re offering. […]

  55. […] in major cities like NYC, where there are way more women than men, women are sharing men whether they know it or […]

  56. […] I found myself standing in the street.. In Manhattan, New York City, by the way, meaning I was literally surrounded by MILLIONS of women, standing around hoping to catch a glimpse of this *ONE* *CHICK*, and at the time, that seemed […]

  57. leslie says:

    couldve fooled me. if there are such an excess of women in the east coast, why does every douchebag approach me as if im the only woman alive? seems like theres way more dudes, esp in ny/nj. what i dont get is the big cities have more prostitutes than where i live in bumblefuck pennsylvania, so leave me the f alone! i wont have sex with u, but at least with the whores its a sure thing

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Hey, Leslie. :)

      Maybe you’re just physically more attractive than a lot of women in your local area, and dudes are just fiending to hit it.

      Regardless.. Don’t mistake personal desperation for lack of availability of women.

      Also, a lot of guys aren’t into hookers, because there isn’t any sport involved.

  58. […] person’s (guy or gal) brain doesn’t work.. Date someone else.” because I live in New York City with millions of other people, so if someone proves themselves to be annoying, there are at least 500,000 less-annoying people to […]

  59. Sally says:

    Oh Bill, I just experienced another NYC failed dating scenario. This guy I went on 6 dates with (slept with on the 2nd) said we “don’t have enough in common to make it work long-term.” I ended up instigating the break-up by telling him that I am not interested in casual dating so perhaps we have different goals. Of course I realized on the 3rd date that he wasn’t into me enough for it to work but I lied to myself and told myself perhaps he’d think it over or my personality would draw him in. NOPE, wrong. I am tall, thin, busty, fit, blonde and get hit on all the time… even yesterday on the subway. However, I can attest as a native Manhattan-ite, all the nice, hot men are TAKEN or have FOMO (fear of missing out) which prevents them from settling down. SUCKS! I have been reading a book by Tracy McMillan titled: “Why You Aren’t Married” and she suggests letting go of all the guys in your life you know won’t commit long-term. Normally, I like to have a few options around but I can tell you it hasn’t worked so I’m willing to let go and try it her way for awhile. So, I will work, walk my dog and continue living life. FREAKIN’ BUMMER

    • Bill Cammack says:

      lol :) I love “FOMO”, Sally! :D haha That might have to be a blog post at some point! :)

      Although I already wrote http://billcammack.com/2008/04/08/fear-of-commitment/

      The short version is that there’s no reason for a guy that lives in a town where there are 5 women for every 1 guy to “settle down” unless he feels like that one woman trumps *ALL* the other women he might meet at work, at bars, in the subway, waiting for the bus, at apartment parties…

      NYC isn’t like the sticks, where you have to select the best chick you can pull from a pool of maybe 12 women that still look good after college, and try to make a life with her.

      In fact, you don’t even have to move. You can sit in Bryant Park and see a fantastic selection of women walking by you during their lunch break from work.

      That doesn’t mean you can pull any of them, but it’s a constant reminder that you “might be missing out” if you claim that you’re only going to mess with one gal at a time.

      The other problem with your scenario is that guys that are ACTUALLY interested in one woman go off the market very quickly. They’re normally IN a committed relationship, and then when the chick jacks that up, they look to get into their next committed relationship ASAP.

      That means that the guys at the bars are usually the ones that a) CAN’T get a committed relationship from a chick they like, or b) aren’t interested, because they realize that you can change women every day and still never run out -> http://billcammack.com/2008/04/19/6-reasons-new-york-city-is-the-neverland-of-dating-for-da-fellaz/

  60. susan says:

    hey you idiots DO know that male to female ratio MUST BE ADJUSTED FOR AGE, don’t you? Women outlive men by a wide margin and this is not always noted when stating area gender ratios.

    p.s. Google “Guttentag Secord”.

    On another note, why the fuck would anyone living in the NYC metro area even have the emotional equipment to handle a normal, healthy relationship or even to socialize at all with normal, healthy people?

    • Bill Cammack says:

      Hey Susan. :)

      The age issue is irrelevant.

      There are too many women in this town. There are packs of women wandering around aimlessly with nothing to do with their time.

      Some of them are young. Some of them are old. Some of them are attractive. Some of them are busted.

      The fact remains that guys have a distinct advantage here, and a lot of women have to share men or go without. :D

      I agree with you about the “emotional health” issue.

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