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Where Is This Relationship Going?
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Historically, I’ve only heard the question “Where is this relationship going?” or the statement “I don’t know where this relationship is going” from women that can’t get a handle on what the guys in their lives are going to do in the future. I’ve never heard a guy say this about his girlfriend, and I wonder if there’s a reason for that….
Personally speaking, my relationships to women aren’t “going” anywhere at all. We like each other or we don’t. We hang out together or we don’t. We’re messing with each other or we’re not. That’s about the extent of “progress”. Unless she has some kind of drastic personality change which makes her so interesting that I want to spend time with her over and over, to the exclusion of other chicks, it is what it is. We’re having fun, expressing interest, sexuality, sensuality and mutual admiration, it starts when it starts.. it ends when it ends.. we pick it up again if we pick it up. C’est la vie.
I find it best to state these things up front. For me, it’s way easier to meet a new chick that’s interested than to extricate myself from a relationship with some disillusioned chick. This isn’t normally the pattern, though…
Unfortunately, a lot of gals don’t actually become authentically useful until they believe your relationship IS “going somewhere”. Until you give them a title, like girlfriend or fiancee, they want to front on what they REALLY want to do with you. Guys know this, because this is an ancient female tactic, so what they do is FAKE being in a relationship with chicks so they can get them to give it up proppah.
All of a sudden, your girl is akkin’ right. All of a sudden, she’s being all she can be. That’s all well and good, except for when it gets down the line and she starts wondering when the relationship’s going to escalate… because… she’s gonna be with you FOREVER, right? :D Y’all are getting married and having kids, right? :D Guys are perfectly willing to let gals believe this up until the point where they’re pressed for the information about “Where is this relationship going?”.
In most cases, “this relationship” isn’t “going” ANYWHERE. It IS what it IS. The guy is perfectly content with how things are between you and isn’t thinking about adding titles that don’t have any bearing whatsoever on his personal satisfaction with you. Of course, this leads to another revolution of the cycle, because women figure this out and start holding out on sex and other benefits until they get some kind of action from the guy. She wants an engagement ring. She wants a date for the wedding. She wants to be actually married to you, etc etc etc.
The saying is “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”. For gals, this means to hold out on the milk in order to get the guy to buy the cow. For guys, this means don’t bother buying the cow, because you can get the milk and keep your wallet and freedom intact. This is also why a lot of women get cheated on, because they think the guy wants THEM when the guy wants SEX or some other thing you’re not providing. As soon as he gets what he wants from the next chick, you’re through.
I’ve always found it interesting that women are often clueless as to the state of their relationships. It’s like they don’t have enough information about their men or enough authentic communication with them to understand what’s currently going on, and that’s affecting their ability to attempt to predict the future. Without communication, you’re a back-seat driver. Go along for the ride or dive out of the car. The reason you don’t know where your relationship’s going is that you have ZERO say or control over where it’s going, and that’s the way YOU’VE allowed it to be.
Women seem to have a hard time reeling this situation back in. They get to a point where their curiosity about progression outweighs their ability to enjoy the ride from the back seat. The problem is, they don’t REALLY want the answer to their question, hahaha :D If they ask and he says “I have no intention of marrying you or having kids with you”, all of a sudden, she has to make the decision to remain in this relationship (which was ALWAYS this way, she’s just finding out NOW), or to bail out right now, and take her chances back out on the dating scene, now that she’s definitely older and potentially less attractive than she was when she started dating her soon-to-be ex.
Since neither situation is preferable, women are literally SCARED TO ASK, and keep going in these relationships that are never going to be different than they are right now. This is as good as it gets. Take it or leave it. Stay or bounce. It’s all in the game. Welcome to the real world, Neo.
Women are also pressurized by the progress of their girlfriends’ relationships. When your girl’s homegirls start getting married and having kids, WATCH OUT!!! :D HERE IT COMES!!! :D “What are we doing?” “Where is this going?” “Are we just wasting time together?” “Has this all been for NOTHING?” blah blah blah blah blah…
A typical defensive tactic for guys in this situation is to put the blame on the gal for the “breakdown” of the relationship. It’s pretty crafty, actually, haha… When she starts asking about relationship progression, the guy acts like all of a sudden, she’s given him all these things to think about that he can’t handle. This means that he needs to think about these “deep” questions that she’s asked him, which means what????? :D That’s right…. “I need some space”. “I need time to think about what you said”. “I need to figure out what I really want”. “It’s not you… it’s me”. “I don’t know if I’m ready to commit”… If what he’s saying is true, he wasn’t thinking about having a future with you in the first place. Either way, what it means is that you’ve just been demoted from exclusive girlfriend to “friend”.
There’s nothing you can say about it either, because YOU’RE the one that asked him all these questions that he’s admitting he has no answer for at this point in time. YOU’RE the one that introduced mental turmoil. You’re saying you aren’t satisfied with how the relationship currently is or that you want some sort of statement from him indicating that things will ever be different, and he can’t (or won’t) provide that, so the relationship necessarily has to stall until he can “figure it out”. Meanwhile, “figuring it out” often involves dating other women to be “sure that you’re the one”… Yeah. Right. :D
So this is why women are afraid to ask about the status of their relationships. They don’t want it to backfire on them, where they inadvertently end things instead of moving them towards the next level. At the same time, they don’t want to continue indefinitely in a relationship that might not end up with them getting titles, marriages, kids…. So it’s really a ‘lesser of the evils’ situation.
Meanwhile, it’s pretty simple for guys. You either have no girls, one girl or several girls. You’re having a good time or you’re not, and you’ll have a good time tomorrow or you won’t.. with the same gal or a different one. You’re messing with a particular chick or you’re not. You’re friends with a particular chick or you’re not. It’s pretty obvious whether she wants to be in a relationship with you or just hang out with you, and I think “Where is this relationship going?” rarely crosses our minds….. if EVER.
~Bill
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34 Responses to “Where Is This Relationship Going?”
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“Authentically useful.” Hah. Nice euphemism.
Thanks man. :) I also think it’s ACCURATE, based on how differently chicks act for no reason at all other than you told them one thing before and you’re telling them something different now.
“We’re seeing each other”. “You’re my girlfriend”. “We’re not together anymore”… Simple statements that activate or deactivate her functionality…
Ok, so I’m wondering something…
I asked the man I’m seeing if he wants a committed relationship, and essentially he replied “I haven’t really thought about committment” and “it’s too soon – - it’s only been two months”, which he is right about.
Ok, so here are my questions:
1) Since I someday want a committed relationship with the man I am seeing, does that mean that I should dump him and move on? Would you suggest that I wait it out for two more months, six more months, a year just to find out???? And if yes, how long would you suggest that I “wait” to see if he “becomes” serious with me.
2) What are women supposed to do when guys say they aren’t ready for commitment? I feel like a “back set” rider, with no control over the situation. HOW do I regain control? Leave? Sit back and accept being an FWB with no commitment? Wait to see if he “becomes” committed someday?
Thanx.
Basically, what your relationship is lacking is authentic communication. You need to tell him what YOU want and he needs to tell you what HE plans. If he doesn’t plan ANYTHING, that’s your answer. Maybe he’ll be with you in the future and maybe he won’t.
How long should you wait? Not at all. You should communicate NOW. Figure out the parameters and then decide what you’re going to do. If you wait, nothing happens for you. Everything remains status quo. If you push for some kind of indication of timing, he might eject, or he might give you a time where he will consider the situation.
Either way, you have to bring the vague into the concrete. My major point to you is that guys who are trying to KEEP a chick make moves to LET HER KNOW that they want to keep her. If they don’t do that, they’re taking their chances that you’re gonna kick it with the next man.
What women are supposed to do when guys say they aren’t ready for commitment is see if that fits into their gameplan. If it doesn’t, bounce. If you’d like to give him more time to “figure it out”, make a timetable for yourself. It’s like when people get out of jail. They’re not on parole INDEFINITELY. There’s an amount of time that’s set, and then parole is OVER.
How do you regain control? I’m not sure you ever had any control in this situation. What you have control over is YOURSELF. You can choose to take a stand or not. You can choose to propose a timetable or not. You can choose to demand that he calls you his girlfriend or not. From everything you’ve written so far, for lack of a better term, it sounds like you’re jocking him and he could take you or leave you.
This is the paragraph that confuses me…
You wrote…
“Since neither situation is preferable, women are literally SCARED TO ASK, and keep going in these relationships that are never going to be different than they are right now. This is as good as it gets. Take it or leave it. Stay or bounce. It’s all in the game. Welcome to the real world, Neo.”
Ok, so is it really as good as it gets? Are you saying that all currently non-committal men will remain non-commital always (i.e. “this is as good as it gets”).
Can you provide info/advice on HOW we women can regain control once we KNOW that our man is non-commital? Leave? Accept it as it is and wait?
And what if you’re a woman (like me) who is not used to this “non-commital/fwb” thingy, and wants more someday? Yes, I’d LOVE to regain control, but I do not know how to do it.
Thanx.
I can’t speak for all guys, and I certainly can’t speak for this guy in particular, since I don’t know him… or you. Is there a chance that he’ll decide eventually that he wants to be with you exclusively? Yes. Is there a chance that he’ll decide he likes things as they are and there’s no need for escalation? Yes.
Put it this way. He’s already tappin’ it. What’s his benefit in calling you a girlfriend or marrying you or doing ANYTHING other than what he’s already doing? He’s already getting what he wants from you.
My opinion on women getting a non-committal man to select them as an exclusive girlfriend is to prove yourself in the trenches. It’s all you can do. He’s going to select you over other women based on your merit, usefulness and personality. It’s like asking me how people could get in front of me in the Google search results for “Avoid Pregnancy”. The only answer is to write a more popular article than mine.
The only way to get a guy to commit to you is to outclass the rest of the women competing with you (read: the entire rest of the female population on the planet).
And if “where is this relationship going” rarely crosses your minds, then when do guys like ya’ll ever get married (or atleast in a committed relationship)??? I’m just wondering… is there a specific breed of guys that is like this, and yet another breed of guys who love the idea of marriage? Reason why I ask, is because I’ve known lots of men who did not do these things very much(Fwb, casual sex, etc…), and got married and are quite happy (or atleast they “say” they are).
hmm… Why in the world SHOULD we get married? O_o
What’s the point?
That’s not everyone’s goal in life. Some people just want to have good times and hawt chicks to share those good times with. Period. Not everyone’s on the path to a committed relationship. Unfortunately for women, guys will Act As If so that they can get laid, regardless if they have any intentions of making you their girlfriend/wife/whatever.
The other problem you have is that guys who actually WANT to get married…. ARE married. It’s no big deal to get a chick to want to marry you. Right now, you’re throwing yourself at this guy. If he just wanted to be married in general, all he would have to do is throw some choice words at you and make you feel special and he’ll be walking down the aisle.
There are too many women looking for men who want to get married for those men to remain on the market for very long at all.
…and also (sorry for all of the posts)…
Because this subject intrigues me, I have 2 more questions…
1) Now that I’ve kinda scared him off a bit with my “where is this relationship going?” question, is it best if I tell him that “I’m having sex with others” (even when I’m not), and that he is welcome to do the same? Or will that piss him off?
2) If not, then would it be a good idea if I atleast told him that we should “date” other people. I would say this in a very positive (not angry) way to him.
Your help, suggestions, and comments are much appreciated.
Signed,
“I do not want to feel helpless anymore”
lolololol :D First of all, he’s ALREADY welcome to do the same. YOU can’t offer to him to screw other women. He’s going to do that if he feels like it.
Second.. It’s really not in your best interest to try out techniques you have no experience with. You have no idea how he’s going to react. There are lots of guys that feel fine screwing several chicks, so long as every single one of them is ONLY screwing him. Telling him something like that could get you ejected with the quickness. It also *might* get him to commit to you, but I totally doubt that.
Same thing for telling him who he can or can’t date. You have no say or control over that.
Ok, I’m understanding all of this ALOT more now, thanx to you and Frank… particularly since your writings are very clear and concise. I now have a definite plan of action to execute, and here it is…
1) I’m going to give my man friend some time – - ’till December 31, 2009 (I know it’s a long time, but I think I’d like to give it a shot). I will not share this date nor my plans about it, with him. It’ll be my own private “timetable”, as you mentioned.
2) I will, from now on, leave him alone (I won’t boycott sex, but I will be sure that he sees that it is NOT something we will do on EVERY SINGLE date). Maybe every three dates or so (rather than “every” single time we’re together).
3) I will stop being so “readily” available and no more “jocking” (never heard of that term before, but looked it up on Urbandictionary.com lol! New to me, but I get it!). I definitely am “chasing” him, whereas before HE was chasing me. So… now that I realize this, I’m going to hang and chill, and if he calls, great. If he doesn’t, ok.
4) Because I am a “one man” woman, and because he immediately told me he is “not promiscuous” and “does NOT want just a ‘casual’ thing with me”, I’m going to take what he said at face value for now (but proceed with caution internally, knowing that it could, in fact, be a lie just to get it on with me).
5) I’m also going to be very nice (no complaints to him about “commitment” and no more talk of relationship labels like girlfriend or boyfriend). I KNOW he likes me ALOT, but I am wayyyy too available, and that has to stop.
6) In addition, I’m going to live my life to its fullest, work hard in my career, and hang with my friends and family, rather than hangin’ around “waiting” for HIM.
7) Although we’ve already been doin’ the wild thang, I’m going to slow things down a bit as to “how many” times we actually see eachother within a week. We already only see eachother 1 – 2 times per week, and it’s gone down to 1 day a week. So, perhaps we’ll see eachother ONLY 1 day/week until September. (I’ll be sure to be pleasant and nice through all of it. I usually am anyway, and we laugh alot together, so that’s cool! :))
I reallllly like this man alot, but I gotta stop with the “dependent” and “out-of-control” behavior… And I’ve GOT to get IN control from this point on! So I will ! ! ! And I will let ya’ll know the results in a month or two if that’s ok with you. :) :) This is definitely a good “case study” for lots of women out there who have similar issues with a man.
Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuu! You are the best! And so is Frank. I’m really glad I found this site! Peace!
1. Having a date. Excellent. This way, you can gauge your progress. If you hit the wall at that point, you know you gave it “The old college try”, and you’re making an educated decision instead of something rash and spur-of-the-moment. You’re STILL going to have to communicate with him between now and then for that to be useful.
2. Scheduling sex is a gimmick (see my series on Analyzing “The Rules”). That may or may not get you any useful results. Personally, if a chick that I was actually “with” (not hanging out with as friends, and whatever’s clever for that day) told me that she was only going to have sex with me a certain percentage of the time, I’d either a) only see her on those days when she was down with the program, because I’m not interested in spending time with anyone that’s not bringing their A-Game to the table, b) still date her and get rid of her early so I could meet other chicks who wanna get with this DIRECTLY after spending platonic time with her bull****ting ass, or c) dump her entirely as far as romantic interactions, though I’d keep her as a friend if she was cool/fun to hang out with.. bail on the physical part entirely.
3. “No more jocking” only works if you’re not honestly jocking (sweating) him. Does that make sense? :) I’ve tried that before… Telling myself that I wasn’t going to be physically interested in some chick because of her mental ineptitude or the stupid way she carries herself as a person, and it NEVER works. Your body does that for you. You feel moved by someone or you don’t. You don’t get to dictate whether you’re sweating someone or not, all you get to do is HIDE IT and languish in your own unrequited sweat haha :D
4. Taking what he said at face value is worthwhile so long as you can trust him. As much information as I get from women, I know that they’re only telling me as much as they’re COMFORTABLE telling me, so I never take anything they say as “God’s Honest Truth”, because down the line, the stories tend to change. Then again, I live in the NYC fast game, where we meet and lose each other over the course of one day, not months or years, so you have to make assesments of people quickly and roll with it.
5. It’s good to stop complaining about words, however, make sure you remain vigilant as far as his treatment of you and his apparent feelings towards you. Not saying anything might equal compliance to him. At the same time you don’t want to appear as a NAG, you also don’t want to appear as a chick that’ll just take anything he offers you. Make what you want known and use your timetable to determine whether he’s making progress in the direction you want, then make your decision.
6. Spend the time of yours that he’s not taking up meeting OTHER. GUYS. He’s made it clear that he’s not making an active play to lock you down and apparently, your goal is to BE locked down by a guy, so keep your options open. Only shut your options down when the guy that YOU want to be with LETS YOU KNOW he’s down for the same thing you’re down for and you believe him, because of careful, educated observation.
I was on the way to see this one chick and met a different one on mass transit. The new chick was completely sweating me, but I didn’t care, because I was already going to see a chick and didn’t need any more girls at that particular moment. When I got there, the chick fronted and I was kicking myself for not booking (getting her number) the chick on mass transit so I could have bounced from that lame situation directly to a chick that was bout-it bout-it. Don’t play yourself by thinking “I’ve got a man” and passing up opportunities to befriend or date guys that are coming after you for the reasons you want them to.
Also, living your life to the fullest is the BEST thing you can do. Too many women get sidetracked by their physical relationships and their career and life goals get tossed away. Ultimately, the better you are at BEING YOU, the more attractive you’re going to be to guys that are looking for impressive women.
7. Stopping being dependent only works if you’re HONESTLY not dependent on him or whomever you happen to be dating at the time.
You’re welcome, Alexis, and please do update us down the road. Frank and I are planning an episode of our audio podcast Street Game to debate your situation, so stay on the lookout for that.
My overall assessment from what you’ve written over the last couple of days is that you actually ARE a worthwhile female to get to know… Your problem is a typical one, that you put the cart before the horse. You want to be in a committed relationship with the guy of your choosing… Except you didn’t choose him from his merits and the way he treats you. You chose him from your own fantasies about being with him. He’s not living up to those fantasies and instead of seeing reality, you’re hanging on to the dream for dear life. He’s either going to live into that by December or you’ll recognize who he’s actually being towards you and you’ll be able to make an educated decision at that point instead of just letting it ride and HOPING that your relationship and therefore your LIFE will be what you want it to be.
1) You wrote: “You’re STILL going to have to communicate with him between now and then for that to be useful.” And you also wrote: “Not saying anything might equal compliance to him. At the same time you don’t want to appear as a NAG, you also don’t want to appear as a chick that’ll just take anything he offers you. Make what you want known and use your timetable to determine whether he’s making progress in the direction you want, then make your decision.”
Ok, it seems you’re telling me that there’s a balance… it’s a precarious balance between “not being a nag” vs. “making it ‘known’ to him, what I want”. Cool. But HOW, WHAT, and WHEN to make this “balance” happen? I’m so clueless.
Bill, can you give me the SPECIFICS on “how” to communicate, “when” to communicate, and “what” to communicate. For example, after a couple of more months of hangin’ with him, do I (say, in late August) go out with him to dinner and ask him, “I’m really havingt a great time since we’ve been seeing eachother… I totally love being with ya. Are we “exclusive?” I’m at a loss for the EXACT wording and timing of it all, Bill. Are there SPECIFIC examples of words/ways to phrase things to him, and how many weeks/months into this relationship should I bring up this stuff to him. Not really sure what you mean by “communicate”… Can ya tell I’m rusty at this stuff? LOL.
2) You wrote: “Scheduling sex is a gimmick (see my series on Analyzing “The Rulesâ€). That may or may not get you any useful results.”
Ok. I understand. I will definitely not “schedule” sex.
…But how do I find out FOR SURE that it’s not like he’s “tapping” me just for sex? I certainly don’t want to boycott sex (and I know you would not suggest boycotting sex). By the same token, I WANT TO BE SOMETHING MORE than just “a girl he has sex with”
We are really attracted to one another… it’s very passionate. But I don’t want to be just another “object” or “tapping source” in the casual sense. I DON’T want sex to be our ONLY focus (and quite honestly, I’ve made it REALLY easy for SEX to be very PRIMARY in our relationship, by consistantly driving to his home, where it’s so easy just to jump in bed and get wild). So, Bill, my question is… is it best to INCREASE our QUALITY/Friendship time together (e.g. having dinner, taking walks, etc…), so that sex is not ALL WE DO ALL THE TIME? How do I manage this, so as not to be a mere SEX machine.
I think I’ve really made it sooooo easy for us to be constantly sexual. Now I’ve set it up so that he can access me whenever he wants to… He calls, I come over, we talk a bit, maybe eat somethig, and… have SEX.
WHAT can I do to modify this. I’d much rather be “getting to know him” intellectually and emotionally – - But now that he’s already tapped me, it’s kinda hard to reverse this situation. Maybe I “gave it up” too soon (which is what ALOT of “relationship” experts seem to say in their books. But, damnit, it’s too late for that… I already gave it up! So, now I need to change things around a bit… make more fun dates, going out, going to the beach, going to interesting events, etc…? Am I right, Bill?
4) HIS accessibility vs. MY accessibility…
I’m wayyy to accessible, IMHO… Too quick to answer my phone, etc…
…But by the same token, I don’t see him but 1-2x week, and I don’t call him for days (and only to return his calls)… and don’t even text him anymore as of this week since he doesn’t like texting and talking on the phone.
Bill, EVERY mode of communication with this dude is shaved down to NOTHING… He doesn’t like people to leave messages in his phone (he told me that from day one) and so I’ve NEVER left any messages. He doesn’t like texting too much, so I have whittled that down to practically NOTHING. And he doesn’t care for emails, so I’ve shaved that down to practically NOTHING. I’ve complied 100% with ALL of this, in order to be respectful of him, and so as not so SCARE him away with an overload of contact.
So, nothing is really in my control, except just to hang in there, have fun in my life, and if he calls, then great (but I don’t want to say “yes” everytime he calls me to come over, because I don’t want to be so accessible as to seem “easy” or “dependent”).
So, how the heck do I have some semblance of NORMAL/HEALTHY communication with someone who is so “inaccessible”??? Arghhh. This is so confusing!
——————————————————————
Thanks again for all of your help. I do want the opportunity to make an informed decision about our relationship. I just don’t quite know the PARTICULARS about how to make the “balance” happen, WHAT to say, WHEN to say it…
I’d love to “TRUMP” all competition out there. I’d love to be his exclusive girlfriend. But I don’t see that happening unless HE is willing to engage in normal and consistent communication… not much I can do there, except live my own life.
ok, I cant wait to get to the audio on this…
Alexis: seriously (and this coming from just putting myself in his sitaution and not knowing either one of you) I dont think I can commit to someone who is so determined to be commited. Truth be told my longest raltionship was 6+years and after that its my current, about to be 2. NEITHER time was it discussed, IT JUST HAPPENED! Other than that I would say the extent of my relationships have been from a couple of hours to maybe a couple of months! and trust when i say i have been blessed with having had my fair share and the shares of others in some cases. Anyone who even broached the subject of a committed relationship this early in the mix, would be kicked to the curb almost ASAP!
From your original comments on a previous post I could sense the frustration and angst in your writing. Its been 2 months. For you to be this annoyed, it means you started this at the one month (if not earlier) mark which would mean that to most men, IT WAS WAY TOO EARLY TO DISCUSS such a complex issue. I also read where you wrote that you were in a LTR and I think this might just be the problem. since you are used to being in one anything less is not satisfying for you. But uhm… You arent in that realtionship anymore. So realtionships arent exactly your forte (regardless of who is to blame for the demise of). if you got out of one after such a long time, dont you want to test the waters and “see” if you still know how to swim?? Bill doesnt think you are being a nag, Bill doesnt…
Again, dont know either of you but if it were me, I’d be scared silly off that woman on the other end of the phone who cant slow down and smell the roses.
FYI: My 6yr ended because i was fully convinced that she was more in love with being in a relationship than she was with me. She was more in love with the prospect of getting married than she was with the thought of marrying me. I was emotionally done with this chick by the 2nd year. Not wanting to be the bad guy and hurt her I chose not to be the one who initiated the break up and the sex was pretty good anyway. BUT eventually all that “SHYT” will run its course. You either want to be with ME or you just want to be with the movie inspired, girly romanticized idea of a relationship.
I would LOVE to hear his side of it!
damn, i hope i left something for the audio.
Some statements, since I haven’t been able to get around to the audio on this as I’m revamping my site…
There is ZERO precarious balance between being a nag and making something known to someone. If I tell a chick one time “Stop wearing flip flops because you look like a bum that can’t afford shoes” or “Stop wearing maternity dresses, you’re not pregnant” or “Stop putting my business in the streets”, that’s letting her know what I want, require or request. If I CONTINUOUSLY TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING, I’m being a nag…. So my point is that you need to come up with your agenda, speak your piece and let the clock start ticking.
WHAT to communicate is whatever you want your relationship to eventually be.
HOW to communicate is in a way where he thinks you’re serious and not just running your mouth.
WHEN to communicate is YESTERDAY.
As far as “Are we exclusive”, I have to write a post about that. That seems to be one of the main disconnects between men and women, other than sex itself. The problem is that he has no incentive to tell you he’s NOT exclusive with you and take the chance that you give it up less…
As far as how many weeks into the relationship, my point is that people put the cart before the horse all the time and call themselves in “relationships” with people they don’t even know. If people did things the right way, which would be to spend time together and get to know each other and then DECIDE whether y’all want to be in a relationship or not, your lives would be better… What normally happens is women make themselves exclusive to a guy while he taps whatever he likes and then the gals wonder if he’s having sex with other chicks.
The time to talk about relationship goals is BEFORE you get into a relationship with someone. Does that make sense? Do you ask whether the brakes work on a car before you start driving downhill? O_o How long do you want to roll down the hill before you test whether the brakes are actually going to slow the car down? Get it?
How do you find out for sure whether he just wants sex from you? hahahahaha Stop giving it to him. See if he calls you ever again. Since I doubt you want to go down that avenue, take what I said as a joke instead of a technique.
That’s another thing women are really, REALLY concerned about. Does he “just” want sex?.. There are lots of chicks that NOBODY wants sex from, so y’all should be happy to be getting attention at all. Having said that, it’s clear that your relationship goal with him is more than having as much good sex as you can get, so whatever you tell him is going to have to reflect that.
You haven’t made it easy for sex to be primary in your relationship. Sex *IS* primary in your relationship. Not just yours, ALL of them. Otherwise, it’s a friendhip, Capisce? Believe me, if he didn’t want to have sex with you, we wouldn’t have been having ANY of these conversations, because he would never have started dating you in the first place. I’m not saying anything about you personally, just that’s how guys work. There’s no reason whatsoever to date a chick you don’t want to have sex with.
You may or may not have the option to increase your “quality/friendship” time with him. A lot of women believe that if they have less sex with a guy, he’ll spend more non-sexual time with them. In reality, guys spend their time lining up the next lay, unless there’s something very interesting about you as a person or y’all share actual hobbies & interest other than messing with each other.
Having said that, it’s ALWAYS in people’s best interest who are dating each other to maximize the quality time they spend with each other, whether sex is involved or not.
The reason the pattern goes talk, eat, SEX is because that’s why he’s inviting you over, to have sex. There’s nothing wrong with that. That may or may not have him thinking about you exclusively. There’s no way to be sure. What you need to do is let him know what you’re thinking and hope he decides to be honest with you about what he’s thinking, whether that’s to make you his girlfriend, FWB or nothing.
Now that he’s tapped you, it’s kind of IMPOSSIBLE to reverse the situation, haha.. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s possible that without the level of physical involvement you’ve had with him, you wouldn’t even be in POSITION to THINK you might get to be his girlfriend.
There’s no such thing as “Gave it up too soon” (of course, Frank’s going to disagree with this, as I already know from an as-yet-unreleased episode of Street Game, hahaha). Everything’s based on your personality. If he’s into you as a person, you can give it up on day 1 hour 1 and he’ll still kick it with you indefinitely. If he’s not into your way of being, you’re toast as soon as he’s no longer interested in hittin’ it.
As far as fun dates, that should be happening if you’re his so-called girlfriend.. Unless staying home and messing is the most fun the two of you could have together, then I can understand that. I chatted with Frank about that too on an episode. You really don’t want to be out in public with your guy where he’s going to be seeing a lot of other chicks he wants to get with and you’re only going to receive a fraction of his attention instead of all of it at home.
I’m going to think about this stuff, Alexis. This is really BASIC material, but I’ve never really looked at it from a defensive position from the chick’s side. Guys don’t have to worry about WHEN we give it up. All we have to do is make sure she got off on whatever we did to her so she wants more of it in the future. There is no “I got him to give it up easy”, because that’s what we’re talking to you for is sex in the first place. You could have gotten it in the first minute you met him. ‘Matter of fact, he wanted to give it to you before you physically laid eyes on him, because he was checking YOU out ahead of time for the purpose.
As far as not calling him, that’s well and good except your demeanor is going to tell him whether you’re sweating him or not. Also, since you’re not taking his **** with you when you leave his house, there’s no telling what he’s doing with it while you’re not calling. If he wants to hook up with YOU, he’ll contact you and tell you so. Spending time away from a guy is only effective if he doesn’t have any other chicks.
Most of the time, people that don’t like to get messages, text messages or emails know that their phone is liable to be compromised… meaning READ BY ANOTHER GIRL, like happened to CHRIS BROWN, dig?
I had this happen to me one time… ONE TIME!!!. I hadn’t actually done anything and I had a message on my machine, so I played it in front of my then-girlfriend. Unfortunately, it was the fellaz laughing on the phone and asking me if I hooked up with the chick that I extracted from the party the night before. So, Yeah, I looked stupid and that was that. That was the last time I played a message so that some other chick could hear it. As far as texts / emails.. If you enjoy keeping your phone locked, go ahead and let chicks text and email you. If you don’t, and you don’t want to end up stressed out, tell chicks that you don’t like ANYBODY to text you or email you and that they can’t get your home number because whateverwhatever.
You’re right that nothing *IS* in your control. The only control you have in the situation is like I’ve been saying.. a) to make your desires known, and b) if you don’t get the action you want in the timeframe you want, move on to the next guy or NO guy if that’s better than being with a guy that doesn’t intend to give you what you want.
The way you have normal conversation with him is to… have normal conversation with him. You wouldn’t have to leave messages if he picked up the phone. O_o If you’re feeling particularly balls-y, the next time he invites you over for sex, keep talking to him. He’s either going to entertain your conversation or THROW. YOU. OUT. for non-compliance, haha Good Luck!
The way to trump the competition is to be better than them. Straight up. That’s all you have to do. Unfortunately, without communication, he’ll never know who you really are as a person, which is what he’s going to have to use to decide whether he wants to be exclusive with you. There’s no reason for a guy to choose a chick for sex he can get elsewhere, like there’s no reason for a gal to choose a guy for money she can get elsewhere.
Bill…
Do these sound like good goals? (I’ll word them with more care, when I speak to him personally)…
By December, I would like to establish that “we are exclusive sexually”
By December, I would like to be able to leave messages on your phone.
By December, I would like us to let it be implied that we are together, if in fact, we decide that we ARE in fact a “couple” by then.
In your opinion, Bill, should any of these three goals be expected to be reached BEFORE december? In other words, am I giving him TOO LONG of a span of time to make good on the goals???
Bill. I’ve been with my guy for about 4 1/2 months.. We are exclusive. It happened the ‘natural’ way. Just by spending time and meeting his friends and family it just came out one day that he referred to me as his girl and that was that.. I am 5 1/2 years older than him. He is 27 and I am 33. Although we communicate pretty good when it comes to questions I might have about our realtionship I feel his nature of answering is more of a safe ‘tone’ or he only speaks giving the minimal amount of info without indulging to much info. I know by the way Im writing it may seem like he is being a player but it’s not the case.. I trust he is not lying but just genuinely wants to be careful with his choice words because I think he is wise to know how women can interpret things sometimes and may just be aware of the fact he’s not the best at communicating..(this is my true gut feeling) That being said. Being he can seem a little ambiguous, my question to you is when I feel it’s come to the point when I want to be a little more assertive or for him to been a little more assertive with gaging where our relationship is going do you think it’s ‘cheezy’ to have a list of questions that I want to address as far as long terms goals? I sometimes have a little trouble remembering the important things I want to address in the moment.. Thanks!
Hey MM. Thanks for the comment. :)
It’s not only “not cheesy” to have a list of questions to address, it’s IMPERATIVE that you do. You don’t want to bring things up every couple of weeks or months… “Oh yeah… I want this too”… “Oh yeah… I forgot to mention that!”.. No good.
What you want to do is prepare that list as you recognize things that you really feel are an issue for you or that you’d like to know the direction of. If you prepare the list close to the moment when you feel each issue, you’ll be sure that your list is filled with things that are honestly important to you.
Also, these conversations aren’t easy, emotionally. If you try to remember it off the top of your head and you get thrown off, emotionally, in a positive or negative direction, important points are going to disappear from your thoughts. This isn’t a play or a movie haha it’s your life. You’re not obliged to memorize the script. Also, if you end up talking about one issue for a long time, you might forget some of the things you wanted to mention.
When it’s that time, let him know that you have a list of things you want to talk to him about. I’m sure he’ll appreciate your thoroughness and thoughtfulness in putting the list together and it’ll make him more likely to take you seriously and pay attention to what you say and feel.
Good Luck! :D
Thanks a lot!!!
Alas,it seems that Betty of the famed Archie comics has had to answer this very question as of today. Archie Comics #600: Where is Bettys relationship with Archie going? Nowhere! he proposed to and got a YES from Veronica!
Even in fantasy land, she who puts out gets it!!! LOL
That’s kind of funny, huh? :D It’s funny how gals go through all these pains NOT to give it up when it’s clear that getting with the program is the only way they’re going to stay in the game long enough to receive the grand prize! :D
Congrats to Veronica!!! :D
Well… I can honestly say me and my new boyfriend are moving forward in a very good direction. Great sex, excellent conversation, beautiful dinner dates, 2 cruises, and he calls me his “girlfriend” ALOT. ;) Leaving the drama out of the relationship, and keepin’ in simple is what made the difference… Nothin’ but pure fun and laughs over the past three weeks, and lots of calls, emails, and texts from him. :) Thanx for your website guys.
Editorial Question for you, “Alexis”. :)
Since you posted that reply from a different email address from the “Alexis” that was posting here on the site a while back, I’m not sure if your statement above means that you are the SAME Alexis and that the SAME guy you were talking about has now claimed you as his girlfriend…. or that you’re a different Alexis, who has a nice relationship with her boyfriend.
Strange that I never thought about this before, since I have so few “regulars” that post comments here, and I’ve never had to deal with different people that had the same first name.
Thanks for clearing this up. My reply will depend on which Alexis you are. :D
Hey Bill! I just read your most recent blog “How to get to know your boyfriend” it made me think about some things.. I have commented on your posts before and I wanted your “man third-party opinion” :-D
So me and the guy I’m still seeing are not seeing each other at all.. This happened once before when he was “going through some stress” for about a month and I didn’t believe him.. We hardly spoke and never saw him.. I said before I thought it was someone else.. I gave up backed away he “felt” better and we picked back up.. BUT, here we go again. Things were back great his grandfather died and he has been taking it pretty hard. Luckily this time as he’s going through his stress he’s not leaving me out but we’re not seeing each other really… Rewind a few weeks back.. I had HAD IT and took it personally that he was doing all these other things and not making physical time for me..(Hanging with his boys.. Playing xbox all day). So, I was ignoring him at work, not replying to his texts, told him I was tired of feeling like a random a** chick etc.. I called him back a couple nights later to talk about it and he was being a jerk and acted like he didn’t have the time… So I was very upset.. (BTW) I know where we stand right now.. He has told me in my “where is this relationship going” talk that he needs time to get stuff in line with his other career aspirations as in his last relationship he put it on hold for her and regrets every bit of it… He has also said he’s not seeing anybody else (hmmmm?) And he wants me to be patient with him as I’m his prototype and knows I’m the best.. . He called me back the night afterwards and broke it down.. Started crying about his fam.. Told me he knows he’s bad with expressing his self and he was sorry. Said he cared about me so much etc etc.. I told him I needed to be around and he assured he would get there again.. That he’s been upset and angry and hanging out with his friends is diff than being with me.. He said I have all 3.. Lol the good kick it vibe, the good talking vibe and the good sex.. He says you’re lucky if you get two.. I know I’m a good woman and bring a lot to the table but.. It’s crazy and makes no sense to me how we can talk all the time and we could be hanging out.. We text for hours daily and talk on the phone a couple times a week.. I’m there for him 100 pcnt and basically waiting for nothing promised.. But I know he cares and I do to..is this normal Bill? I mean it’s obviously not normal but what do you think?? He’s very honest and I like that.. Lol the girl he dated at my work some months be fore me said he saw her for a month and then when she asked him what happened when they stopped talking he told her “I found someone I like to hang out with better than you”.. Lol that sounds mean but I knew that going in and appreciated that honesty.. But I’m very confused..
Hey Bill! I just read your most recent blog “How to get to know your boyfriend” it made me think about some things.. I have commented on your posts before and I wanted your “man third-party opinion” :-D
So me and the guy I’m still seeing are not seeing each other at all.. This happened once before when he was “going through some stress” for about a month and I didn’t believe him.. We hardly spoke and never saw him.. I said before I thought it was someone else.. I gave up backed away he “felt” better and we picked back up.. BUT, here we go again. Things were back great his grandfather died and he has been taking it pretty hard. Luckily this time as he’s going through his stress he’s not leaving me out but we’re not seeing each other really… Rewind a few weeks back.. I had HAD IT and took it personally that he was doing all these other things and not making physical time for me..(Hanging with his boys.. Playing xbox all day). So, I was ignoring him at work, not replying to his texts, told him I was tired of feeling like a random a** chick etc.. I called him back a couple nights later to talk about it and he was being a jerk and acted like he didn’t have the time… So I was very upset.. (BTW) I know where we stand right now.. He has told me in my “where is this relationship going” talk that he needs time to get stuff in line with his other career aspirations as in his last relationship he put it on hold for her and regrets every bit of it… He has also said he’s not seeing anybody else (hmmmm?) And he wants me to be patient with him as I’m his prototype and knows I’m the best.. . He called me back the night afterwards and broke it down.. Started crying about his fam..(( Understand he’s a big ego you never see me cry and I’m “hard” cool type type dude )) Told me he knows he’s bad with expressing his self and he was sorry. Said he cared about me so much etc etc.. I told him I needed to be around and he assured he would get there again.. That he’s been upset and angry and hanging out with his friends is diff than being with me.. He said I have all 3.. Lol the good kick it vibe, the good talking vibe and the good sex.. He says you’re lucky if you get two.. I know I’m a good woman and bring a lot to the table but.. It’s crazy and makes no sense to me how we can talk all the time and we could be hanging out.. We text for hours daily and talk on the phone a couple times a week.. I’m there for him 100 pcnt and basically waiting for nothing promised.. But I know he cares and I do to..is this normal Bill? I mean it’s obviously not normal but what do you think?? He’s very honest and I like that.. Lol the girl he dated at my work some months be fore me said he saw her for a month and then when she asked him what happened when they stopped talking he told her “I found someone I like to hang out with better than you”.. Lol that sounds mean but I knew that going in and appreciated that honesty.. But I’m very confused..
I had to come back and comment on this one. “Personally speaking, my relationships to women aren’t “going†anywhere at all. We like each other or we don’t. We hang out together or we don’t. We’re messing with each other or we’re not.” This is clean, this is tidy and this makes sense but for some women time spent in “hanging out together” and “messing with each other” leads us to believe: “oh he’s feeling me, I’m feeling him, maybe we should call it something” I wish we could all hit the brakes right there. To me worrying about the title and such takes away from right now. If a woman is enjoying a man right NOW why worry about where the “relationship”, whatever that means, is going. What is wrong with Mr Right Now?
I think I love you!!!
Woman of the world, hear her song…
Preach Soulpowr, preach!!
Yess’M. Absolutely. :)
That’s the entire point. The system is set up so that if there isn’t a feeling of progression, women want to bail out of an otherwise perfect relationship. Also, if there isn’t the PROMISE of progression, beforehand, women want to act as if what’s genuinely offered to them by a guy isn’t worth as much as it is from someone that knows what stories to tell them to get them on board with the program.
Meanwhile, during all this jockeying for position, EVERYONE misses out on authenticity. Guys are inauthentically jumping through hoops so they can maintain their relationships to chicks and chicks are accepting this jumping as ‘love of them’ instead of ‘fear of losing the relationship’. It’s completely unhealthy and it’s the reason why there are so many BAD breakups. People hang on and hang on and hang on to their relationships until they get so stressed out by what the other person put them through that they REALLY dislike them after the fact.
I would much rather have a little of something GENUINE than a lot of something that isn’t. I can go out and have drinks with one of my close female friends, have great conversation, not mess with them at all and head home knowing I had a fantastic evening, because it’s all GENUINE, and I appreciate that. OTOH, I could spend the same amount of time talking to one or more chicks that are completely full of it and trying to use me for socialization or networking or whatever else people try to use me for and have a horrible time, because the whole time, I’m sitting there like “Really?” :/
I think the worst part of it is that if you don’t play the game, you’re perceived as INAUTHENTIC when in fact you’re the most authentic person that particular chick knows…. Instead of taking the EASY, EASY, EASY, EASY, EASY route of claiming that I want to be your boyfriend and I’m ready to settle down and I want to have kids with you and move to “some suburbian area” with you and never see another girl with my eyes for as long as we both shall live, which will get a chick to lay down Quick, Fast, In A Hurry, Flava’s Vision Ain’t Blurry… I’mma tell you straight that I’m feelin’ you, but I’m not about to trade you ANYTHING for you to give me what you should naturally be giving me. That could be anything, everything or nothing, but regardless of what it is or isn’t, I’m not going to barter with you.
I’m not going to promise you I’m not going to kiss some other chick so you’ll kiss me, which is what you naturally wanted to do in the first place, but you were holding out until I bartered. Nah. If you don’t want to kiss me, don’t worry about what I’m doing with other chicks. If you do, and I’m down with it, enjoy your good fortune and roll with it.
Leave all that IF, THEN, ELSE for computer programming. YA HEARD? :D
Thanks for the comment! :D
Soulpowr, areed! Once you’re both thinking in terms of “we” you’re as close as you’re ever gonna get anyway. The rest is noise to satisfy people’s fantasies.
That’s just the thing… Relationships move by themselves, regardless of what you call them. It doesn’t make me any less “about” a chick if I only see her once every two months, once a week or every day. It doesn’t make me any less “about” a chick if I’m simultaneously “about” other chicks, because my relationships to them are all individual.
Meanwhile there are women who throw away perfectly good relationships every day because some guy didn’t say he intended to marry them or even call them his girlfriend. If not throw the relationship away, downgrade it so that they act differently towards the dude because of a couple of words.
That’s how dudes learn that lying to chicks is the way to go because you avoid hassles. While it’s on, it’s on and when it’s over it’s over and nothing that you say about it or call it is going to make any difference whatsoever.
Question for Bill and rest of you:
So two weeks ago, this bloke sees my picture on my sisters profile picture (twitter), is interested in gettin to know me, contacts my sister who he knows and finds out im am indded her sister , not her stunning gorgeous and pretty friend ( those where the words in his email to her)
my sistr knws him and thinks hes a nice lad,hes friends wiv my sisters fiancee. she thinks hes an awryt man but obv hasnt dated him..so wat does she know?
As he has just finished his PHD , he feels hes ready to settle, he s looking to meet the right woman as hadnt yet.
He calls me , we talk and get on , 4 days later we meet, he comes round to my city and we were meant to go for tea but instead he took me shoppin, im a bit reluctant but finally get a bag and an earing , is all. i felt totally spolt , i got us some breakfast frm the coffee shop so i felt good abt that.
we get on really well, looks wise, hes not my type, hes quite big but everythng else so far, he ticks all my boxes. nice sense of humor, similar interests, gentleman, funny , great chemistry, the list is endless.
he askes to see me next day and is willing to come see me again or i go see him, hes not fussed. i deiced to come see him, we have a fantastic time, spend around 10 hours together wehere we both forgot to eat..it was crazy,we talked abt our past relationship , he confessed he didnt believe in meetin that person meant for him until now. he said he felt a connection to me from that picture and wanted to get in cntact with me.
there was a natura chemistry so it wasnt odd that we made out some but not major, kiss hug the likes,he wudve wanted sex mayb at some point but obv knew that want guna happen. he shows an understanding and theres no pressure.
i had a good time and gfinally had to go home, he kisses me gdbye at the station and calls me after .
he buys me a train ticket bk and gives me some money to get a taxi to get home as he gt me late and made me miss my coach back hme.
next day he refers to me as his girlfriend and invites me to his graduatin ceremony …we discuss the term but i dont agree or diagree…so now im confused, is it too soon to commit? yeh so shud i say to him, introudce me as someone u are seeing not as ur girlfirnd cos altho i like him so far, ive only knwn him for 9days.
hes 35 and im 25 …he has been upfront abt his intentions, hopin we can build something frm this i.e marriage and he reckons im wat hes been lookin for. today he said to me ” i cant wait to see u..i want to see u again and again ” . so being as ive been a bit of a comiitment phobe myself, i like him but very unsure how to go abt this .
your advise will be greatly appreciated guys. thanks x
Hey Jane. :) Thanks for the comment / question.
There are actually two separate issues here. The first one is his behavior and the second one is your reaction to his behavior.
HIs behavior seems typical. He’s complimenting you, buying you stuff, he’s said you look good, he DEFINITELY wants to have sex with you or else he wouldn’t be pursuing a relationship with you (or talking to you at all), so all the indicators are that he actually likes you. Whether he’s reliable to come through on all the flowery stuff he’s telling you he wants to do with you remains to be seen (as is the case with everyone).
Your reaction to his behavior is actually a good one.. Confusion! :D That’s good because it means that you’re thinking. Good for you. :D
There are too many chicks that see the gravy train and just jump on board and then wonder what happened when they feel used after they get pumped and dumped.
The answer to your question is that you’re his girlfriend whenever you FEEL LIKE you’re his girlfriend. That obviously isn’t right now, because you don’t know this guy from Adam and you haven’t been on but a couple of dates with him. He can’t possibly be your boyfriend unless both of you are on board with that concept.
Don’t bother making up a term for it like “seeing each other” or “going out” or “dating” or whatever. It is what it is. If you feel like you want to make more out of your relationship with him than it currently is, you’ll feel that and then it’ll be time for you to act on how you feel.
The concept of being someone’s Significant Other is taken too lightly by most people, leading to their getting into and out of relationships frivolously. Don’t bother going on that ride. If you’re not feeling the girlfriend thing yet, just tell him (privately, not in front of other people, haha) that you’re not comfortable with him calling you his girlfriend. Let him know you hope you feel that way someday, but you don’t yet and it makes you feel odd when he announces something to people that you’re not yet in full agreement with him about.
Hang out with him, see how you feel about it and decide later whether you want to be exclusive with him or not. Deciding that you’re his girlfriend before you actually feel that way would be an error and if you decided down the line that you weren’t going to make it there, you’re going to have to explain your way out of the relationship, which is worse than never starting something you didn’t believe in in the first place.
Beleedat.
Excellent bit of reading was Bills response…
Im just going to add a wee bit more. Please keep in mind that I dont know either of you blahblahblah and all that other good stuff. In general when a man exhibits this kind of impulsive behavior in such a short time AND commits fiancial resources to it (all based on a picture)… Theres a good chance that once he ta-daps that and gets that initial surge of lust out of his system, you wont be the only one questioning the concept of the word girlfriend. Yes I do understand that whole love at first sight thing, I have seen enough movies and seen enough girls force there random meeting of a guy into that discription BUT usually when that is the case it tends to be a 2 way street. The BOTH of you would be talking about love at first sight, not just him. I could be wrong and probably am, but really, historically the odds are against you UNLESS the revolving sound you hear everytime you think of him is “You’ve got mail” as you envision him holding you atop the Empire State Building.
Jump in with both feet if you want, but a littlecaution wouldnt hurt.
This is true. Personally, I don’t buy girls JACK-**** until they deserve it (see “Buy a girl a drink?”). It’s a typical tactic though, because guys are supposed to demonstrate that they can take care of a chick in the way she would like or is already accustomed to. There’s no other reason for her to hook up with him long-term, because she can “do bad all by herself”, capisce?
From Jane’s description of the situation, dude sounds mad thirsty, which means that his actions and reactions might be completely different after he “has a sip of water”.