Follow The Leader [Hunters, Part 02]

In response to Wingman Responsibilities [Hunters, Part 01], Reader “C Jay” writes:

“One thing i wanted to ask is about the whole follow the leader thing. Doesnt it make more tactical sense that the wing be the leader, i mean except for target selection he basically determines everything else.”

This is an excellent question and one I’ve never considered before. The short answer is: “The Top Gun leads the rap unless the ‘lesser dude’ in the situation has exclusive recon that makes him the one that should be calling the shots”. Therefore, there are actually TWO configurations you have to deal with.. Who is the leader when neither one of you has a chick yet and who is the leader once ONE OF YOU gets a rap and the other becomes “wingman” by default?

Training Grounds

ReelSolid.TV  "301"I really like this question, because I spent A. LOT. OF. TIME. as NOT THE TOP DOG when it comes to pulling chicks. There are two ways you can deal with this.. Fight against the pecking order and still try to pull the top girls or go with the flow and benefit from the trickle-down as well as learning what the players did to be successful so you can emulate them in the future.

When you first start out in the game, you don’t realize you’re at a SEVERE DISADVANTAGE because you don’t know what guys are doing to attract chicks. You think it’s pot luck. “I went somewhere, a chick liked me, I got on”. Little did you know that tricks of the trade were being used to send primitive indicators to girls that they should select the next guy instead of you. If you pay close attention for long enough, you figure out what they’re doing.

You have the same jeans on, but theirs are perfectly ironed and creased. You have the same jacket on, but they work out and they’re in better shape than you. They go to the barber shop before the weekend so their “line is tight” and you don’t. They have a job, so they have more money than you get from your allowance. They spent $50 on a flimsy gold chain that they FINALLY got out of layaway, but they also bought a nice medallion that chicks flock to and want to look at and touch, while you have enough money to buy that same chain right now in your pocket, but there’s nothing for chicks to SEE, so you lose. They have the slow jam tape on them and you don’t. They took a virtual BATH in Egyptian Musk and you didn’t……

Protect The Leader

What you figure out eventually is that you’re walking into the war without your vest and without your gun.

I’ve never been in an actual war and I’m not going to be.. I’ve been in innumerable wars via FPS video gaming.

I remember being in a HALO game with my crew after we acquired a female player we call “Angel”. We were playing team deathmatch, and as the squad leader, I’m in charge of figuring out how we’re doing and determining our strategy second to second.

So every time I hit the button to check the individual and team scores, Angel’s K/D (kill-to-death ratio) is going UP while the rest of ours are going DOWN and the game is pretty much even. I’m not a shooter, I’m a strategist and I tell other people who to shoot, so I wasn’t going to be a factor in putting us in the lead for good.

The simple fact the numbers were telling me was that when Angel was UP, our team was advancing, and when Angel was DOWN, the other team was advancing. The executive decision I made as soon as I figured this out was that *EVERYBODY*s job for the rest of the game was to make sure that ANGEL stayed alive.

Anybody you see shooting at Angel, CAP him. If she’s in a firefight, shoot the guy she’s shooting. If there’s a powerup or ammo for her weapons, leave that for her. If you’re getting shot while you’re helping Angel, too bad for you.. You’re SOL (**** out of luck). You don’t turn around and shoot that person. You stay on your assignment, and when that dude drops you, he’s going to have to reload and Angel’s going to get our kill back.

Fortunately, the rest of our teammates believed in my time-proven ability to strategize and sacrificed themselves, as did I, to keep Angel Blazin’, and we ended up crushing the other team decisively.

This is the same way raps need to be handled. Whomever is being EFFECTIVE, RIGHT NOW is the one the team has to rally behind to facilitate his efficiency. If he’s rapping to the girl you wanted?… You have to eat that. Maybe you get the best chick next time. All you do by fighting over or rapping to the same chick is make your entire crew look like Busters and then none of y’all deserves the rap! 😀

Meanwhile, whomever has the favor of the crowd has to not be selfish. Recognize that you’re able to do what you’re doing right now because other guys are warding off cockblockers and sacrificing their own desires so you can rap to a chick they want for themselves. It’s YOUR JOB to put in a good word for your boys and facilitate THEIR raps to the extra chicks instead of riding your current success to glory in Valhalla.

There’s No “I” In TEAM!

So.. To answer C Jay’s question, the leader in a situation where two guys head out to pick up chicks is dynamic, not static.

Optimally, BOTH GUYS have an equal grasp of the game and either guy is likely to get a rap at any point of the night.

When that’s the case, it becomes a flow, like hockey players on a 2 vs. 1 break. It’s not important that one particular guy scores. It’s important that THE TEAM goes ahead by one goal.

If the team goes +1, there’s a good chance that EVERYONE will end up with the “W”. If the guys on the break are selfish, they might screw up their advantage, nobody scores, and the team isn’t any better off.

This is one of the reasons why Wingman Selection is so important. You have to actually be HAPPY if your boy gets on and you go home with nothing or waste hours distracting her homegirl from blocking your boy’s action. Dudes that don’t have this kind of rapport with each other start getting sour and sabotaging raps and making the whole crew look like clowns.

Bada Bing, Bada Boom

So, assuming you have equal dudes working together, the leader is the one that has the best idea for how one or both of them are going to get on tonight. You saw this in “Jersey Shore” when Mike & Pauly were standing out in the street deciding whether to invite the chick and the grenade home to hop in the hot tub. Mike has a line on the girl he wants to hook up with. That chick comes with an extra chick that needs to be distracted, which is going to be Pauly’s job.

Pauly says to him “We don’t have anything better, right?”. This means that they’ve kicked all the game they’re willing to kick for the evening and it’s time to disappear with some chicks. If Pauly had pulled a chick that HE wanted to bring back, he would have said so right there. Since he hadn’t, he was willing to facilitate Mike’s rap and help him try to score.

At that point in the game, the leader was Mike, because he had a direct connection to a girl he was trying to hook up with. Best-Case Scenario for the evening was Mike +1, Pauly +0 = Team +1. Once they got home, Mike dropped the ball and didn’t isolate his chick fast enough before Pauly got tired/bored/annoyed with covering for him and bailed. We don’t know what happened, because that’s an edited show, but Pauly SHOULD have told Mike to hurry the **** up and make it happen.

At that point, as C Jay is suggesting, the wing is actually the leader, however, I suggest that he took over because he had a better grasp of the situation, which was that Mike wasn’t pulling the trigger and something good needed to happen QUICKLY, or else.

Unfortunately, I really doubt this is the case in most situations. I think most of the time, either one or both guys don’t know the first thing about what they’re doing with chicks and it’s a Keystone Cops / pot luck scenario, thus the term “Getting Lucky”, because guys have no idea how they got laid. \o/

Experience > Current Advantage

Bill & KVWhen you have one guy that knows what he’s doing and one guy that doesn’t, there is NO. CHANGE. IN. LEADERSHIP. The other guy’s not qualified to make any decisions.

Regardless of who’s working on someone at the time, the ‘lesser’ dude doesn’t suddenly have wisdom bestowed upon him because he happens to currently enjoy the best chance of getting on.

I found this out the hard way in a couple of scenarios. In one of them, 4 or 5 of us rolled up on several chicks and I was talking to a pretty nice-looking girl until to my chagrin, the Top Dog broke from the girl he was rapping to and rolled up on my conversation, rendering me immediately invisible. 😀 hahaha OH. MAN!.. I. Was. Mad. As. A. ****!!! 😀

The other situation was that I was talking to this chick first but didn’t kick the proper game. I wasn’t “Street” enough for her tastes, so eventually, this SCRUM (lowlife) came over that was part of my crew and started talking to her and she fell for it immediately.

This dude probably LITERALLY had DUST in his pockets, was dumb as a box of rocks and at the time had no earning potential whatsoever… BUT… he was wearing trendy clothes and had an earring and sounded like he was from the ghetto, which he was, and the chick immediately went out like a sucker.

I think I even TOLD HER THAT DAY that my homeboy wasn’t about JACK (not to try to cockblock him, but because I could see her future from the way she was blindly jocking him so hard), but she didn’t want to hear it. She was too busy sweating him. A few months later, I run into her in the street and she’s all crying and distraught because she’s pregnant by him and he threw her number in the trash. C’est La Vie. \o/

The point being that I didn’t come to the table with the “Toolry & the Jewelry” to turn these chicks’ heads, so I didn’t have any say in the raps whatsoever. My effect on the situation was minimal, so my choice in the matter was to follow the leaders and depend on the trickle-down unless the leaders decided to swoop in and bag that up as well. 😀

Critical Recon & Intel

The *ONLY* time the lesser dude has any juice is when he’s privy to exclusive and important information that changes the game.

Sometimes, even though you’re not even trying, a chick is just sweating you for some unknown reason. She likes how you look… She likes that you’re not pressing up on every chick in the place… She likes that you sound educated… You’re at the beach, so she can tell you’re in FANTASTIC SHAPE compared to your more-suave homeboys… You actually listen to her and talk to her instead of nodding at her until you can get laid….. Whatever it is, there are some circumstances where the lesser dude has a chick locked down, and that’s when HE becomes the most important guy in the crew.

He’s still not the SMARTEST when it comes to this, so it’s in his best interest to pull the Top Dog to the side and explain the situation so the tactics can be determined. The fact remains that he’s currently THE MAN, so the team’s goal is to make sure he’s as successful as possible and everyone else gets whatever they can salvage from the evening.

Another common intel situation is that chicks are often too scared to kick it to the Top Dogs. For the same reasons that guys find it insanely easy to talk to girls they’re not attracted to, some chicks will approach lower-level dudes and TELL THEM DIRECTLY that they’re interested in the guy they’re scared to talk to. This is your opportunity to not be a ******* HATER and share the wealth. If you see that your boy’s wasting time trying to kick it to a different chick when this one’s already down with the program (assuming of course that they’re interchangeable, looks-wise), find a way to interrupt your boy and let him know what time it is. If he’s happy with his current chick, he might send you back to get her number for future reference. If he’s tired of putting in work and wants to get down to the nitty gritty, he’ll probably pass this chick off to you and go talk to the “Sure Thing”.

Do NOT let your feelings of jealousy cause you to sit on intel. Sometimes, it’s just not your day. Sometimes, your boy gets all the raps and you have to be cool with that or you’re in the wrong business. Go solo if you hate seeing your friends enjoy themselves.

Of course, conflict can occur when both guys happen to get on simultaneously with different sets of chicks, haha in which case, they’ll have to agree to split up and handle each group separately or one guy needs to get contact information and close out so he can assist his boy with the other set.

Dynamic Allocation

So we wind up back at the short answer. The Leader is determined dynamically, based on the situation and the guy’s respective skillz when it comes to pulling chicks. Both guys have to know each other’s styles and both have to respect each other’s games to the degree that they’re willing to take one for the team this time, knowing that their boy’s going to do the same for them when THEY’RE in an advantageous position. Without that inherent trust & camaraderie, the whole thing falls apart and it’s every man for himself.

I’d also like to add that the game starts before you leave the house. You need to walk out the door envisioning how the night’s going to go for you AND your boys. You have to understand your friends’ strengths and weaknesses so you can see the playing field properly when the evening’s chicks show up and it’s time to make it happen. You have to understand where you’re going and which wingmen are going to be effective in that particular environment.

Join the Conversation


  1. “Sometimes, even though you’re not even trying, a chick is just sweating you for some unknown reason. She likes how you look…” – *cough* haven’t seen this happen *cough*

    “For the same reasons that guys find it insanely easy to talk to girls they’re not attracted to…” – Man! Is this ever true!

    I guess someone else could see this approach as overly dry, planned, or even manipulative. But it’s fairly philosophical in terms of victory conditions, how you interact with your friends, how to treat women that aren’t interested in you, and to a degree, being yourself. Sounds like a fun game! 🙂

    1. It has to be manipulative because you’re manipuLATING. Anybody that leaves getting raps up to chance is a fool. Figure out the odds. Figure out people’s patterns. Apply your knowledge. Win or Lose.

      It’s the same thing as poker. There are people that go to their friends’ houses to hide from their wives and play poker with no clue as to whether they’re going to win or lose. They leave it all up to the cards. THEN.. You have people that study and practice and learn and approach the same game with much more expertise and have much better odds of winning, or if they can’t win, they know enough about their hand and the cards that have already been played to fold instead of raising and losing more money than they should.

      What’s NOT fun is wondering whether you’re gonna get on or not. I like it much better knowing that it’s just a matter of time and application of skill, AND if I see things don’t have a good statistical chance of going my way, you know, like, hypothetically, if I showed up to a place and this chick I wanted was already making out with some other dude (*cough* haven’t seen THAT happen *cough*) I bail early and start something else up instead of wasting my time throwing rocks at a tank.

      1. Bad choice of verb on my part. What I meant by manipulative was more like “deceptive”. You’re not out there lying to chicks about who you are to get them to lay down.

        As for the rest I agree, there’s plenty of fun to be had in fine tuning your skillz. You can either focus on tweaking your approach or focus on the number of times you lose out. Treating it like a winnable game gives a feeling of control over the odds, however illusory. “It’s just a matter of time if I do x, y, z…” Like that.

        1. It’s always a game, and it’s usually winnable. The question is how much time do you have to win the situation and how much progress do you need to make in that amount of time?

          For instance.. If a chick says she has a boyfriend, that might be the truth or it might be a lie. If it’s a lie, she’s trying to block you from rapping to her. Neither situation is good, however both situations call for different tactics, so your counter is to figure out what her relationship’s like. If she can’t/won’t tell you, it might be because it doesn’t exist.

          So, instead of her statement “I have a boyfriend” becoming reality to you, it needs to be filed away as merely a parameter. It’s another item of information that you have to help you in your quest to get on. Throw that in the mix with the rest of her statements and behaviors and you eventually end up profiling her properly, like CSI.

          Besides that, a chick having a boyfriend doesn’t mean anything in and of itself. Statistically, 50% of people in relationships cheat, AND relationships break up every day. Today’s brush-off becomes tomorrow’s revenge-****, Capisce? 😀

          1. “It’s always a game, and it’s usually winnable. The question is how much time…” *cough* let’s say somebody I was attracted to dropped the bf bomb on me and we were in the same social scene. Tactically speaking I could easily arrange to float by every now and again without it seeming contrived. Strategically speaking I’d probably have enough info from the last time we spoke to start several conversations provided she’s willing and the environment is ideal… and from there it’s just the chinese water torture technique (not to be confused with water boarding) drip, drip, drip and it goes or doesn’t.

  2. The long awaited part 2 of this saga is here :).

    I just wanted to clarify what i meant when i was asking the question in part1.

    In every group or click or whatever there is always the default leader that usually organizes the night out picks locations knows all the spots and so on. However i was referring to particular situations like the mike-pauly one where the wing has zero interest in the assignment. in this kind of situation the wing-man is pulling much more weight (no pun intended) than the point-man it’s his job to watch your back and make sure that you have no interference. its like a running back sure he has the ball and he is making the play but his moves are actually dictated by the blockers.


    by the way i would like to hear anyones opinion on
    how the situation with mike-pauly could have been salvaged or was it doomed from the beginning.

    1. 1) In the Mike-Pauly situation, it was clear that Pauly had no interest because when they were standing on the corner, you hear Pauly say “We got nothing better, right?” and Mike says “No” and Pauly agrees to back him up and distract the DUFF.

      Right there and then, Pauly shouldn’t have become the “leader”, but should have become the Coach to Mike’s Quarterback, let’s call it. Mike was still calling the shots, because he was the one that needed to land his chick. Pauly, OTOH had the ability to release the grenade, so that was Pauly’s time to tell Mike exactly how much time he had to isolate his chick.

      This would be similar to the Coach telling the Quarterback what he needs to do, but the QB still being in charge of running the play. After that, it would have been up to Mike to follow the guidelines and potentially score or not get the touchdown before the final 2 minutes ran out and give up the ball or even lose the game entirely.

      However, from what I can tell from the edit of the show, Pauly deferred to Mike as far as raps. They were homeboys the whole time, but I didn’t see any sections where Mike was following Pauly’s lead, so they may have already determined the pecking order as going something like “If Mike can pull TWO hawt chicks, we both get one. If Mike can only pull one, Mike gets her & Pauly defends. If Pauly pulls one, Mike backs him up if he doesn’t have his own chick to work on, in which case they take them ALL back to the crib and see what happens”.

      Also, it seemed like Pauly’s more of a solo artist. He was kicking it to ‘tougher’ chicks like J-Woww & the Israeli chick. Not tough as in tough to lay, obviously.. Just tough as in mentally tougher to deal with. The chicks Mike pulled were straight airheads and easy to wrangle.

      The only time Mike brought some thinking chicks through, him, Pauly & Vinny got completely shut down, they never got a single chick isolated, they said at least 20,000 times that they weren’t getting in the hot tub, *AND* the chick broke it down when they were already leaving that she had heard rumors on the boardwalk about Mikey The Situation and Pauly The Problem. The fellaz were proud of this and slapping five, but they shouldn’t have been because their rep was getting around and making it tougher for them to land quality chicks.

      So it seemed like Pauly was deferring to Mike when it came to pulling multiple chicks, which was going to lead to Mike having first pick and of course taking the better chick and leaving Pauly on grenade duty unless there was more than one decent chick.

      2) The situation could have been salvaged if Pauly would have told Mike he was on the short clock while they were figuring things out on the corner before they invited those two chicks home. Mike would have had to have respected what Pauly said though and isolated his chick as soon as they got to the crib. Unfortunately, Mike was counting on the hot tub, which never heated up. He should have skipped the tub and disappeared with his, immediately.

      It could have been salvaged if Mike & Pauly hadn’t dumped the chicks they ended up with anyway to try to pull the chicks in the Mercedes. I understand why they did it, though. They were going home with those two because they had nothing better to do. Pauly was about to take a short. By ditching the first two and getting the car-chicks to come home with them, there was a CHANCE that Pauly might have had a good time with his chick, so that was worth a try.

      Turns out that when they got to the crib, the chicks were frontin’, so they ended up ditching THEM to regain the original chick+grenade combo. This made it worse for Mike, because now, it was even later at night and Pauly was closer to going to sleep, so he should have worked faster, but he didn’t.

      Could have been salvaged if Mike knew what he was doing. He kept making stupid statements out loud like “Let’s take a nap” when he should have done what he eventually did after Pauly bounced, which was take the chick’s hand and walk away from the grenade and go do what she came there to do. So he not only FAILED on speed, he FAILED on technique. That wasn’t some rocket scientist he was trying to lay. Make Like Nike and Just Do It.

      Also, Mike was a fool for getting the chick in an non-lockable area so the grenade could just roll herself into the room and blow up his action, which is exactly what she did.

      Ultimately, as long as you trump the chick you’re trying to lay, just make it happen. You don’t have to use the same techniques on all chicks. Mike & Pauly invited the chicks to the crib, dumped them on the corner after getting them to leave the bar, the chicks turned around and went BACK to the bar, Mike & Pauly went home with OTHER chicks, the two they dumped STALKED THEM TO THEIR CRIB, YELLING FOR THEM TO LET THEM IN… and then Mike’s there talking about “We should take a nap”. :/

      Please. The chicks came for what they came for. Hurry up and give it to them so Pauly can go to sleep.

      1. Right there and then, Pauly shouldn’t have become the “leader”, but should have become the Coach to Mike’s Quarterback, let’s call it. Mike was still calling the shots, because he was the one that needed to land his chick. Pauly, OTOH had the ability to release the grenade, so that was Pauly’s time to tell Mike exactly how much time he had to isolate his chick.

        what we have here is the difference in opinion on what the leader is because i always thought that the coach was the leader? play calling is exactly what pauly should have done as a matter of fact the seperation of the duff from mikes chick should have happened asap.

        seperation is the key to all situations chicks become totally diffrent when they are not in front of their friends. Trying to help your boy get on = seperate. You and your boy are bout to get on = seperate.

        1. You’re absolutely right that the coach is the leader as well as the superior to the quarterback on a football team. I’m sure you understand football, but let me give a rudimentary example of what I’m saying.

          The coach is the leader, except he’s an old-ass man. 😀

          The coach can THINK and STRATEGIZE all he wants, but he’s not in the physical shape to move the football ONE INCH on the playing field. The quarterback has to do it.

          Also, Yes.. The coach gives the QB the play and essentially demands that he runs exactly that play. This makes the coach the leader, UNTIL the QB is on the playing field. If he looks around and doesn’t like what he’s seeing, he can call an audible and change the play at the line of scrimmage by calling out predetermined set of signals.

          This is why I used that analogy. Ultimately, even if the coach decides to put the QB on the bench, when the ball is snapped, it goes in to the QB’s hands and he’s the only one that can ACTUALLY make anything happen, so, to me, he’s still the leader, with the coach giving suggestions and even having a better overview of the entire situation, but still not being the primary person in the trenches.

          Speaking of trenches, it’s the same thing with war. The General sits in the USA telling YOU what to do in some other country. If you’re told to take that bridge, because on paper, that looks like a good thing to do from the USA (or because that person’s willing to sacrifice YOUR LIFE to try to gain control of something), even though the General is clearly your leader, YOU are the leader in that situation, because if you head away from the bridge instead of towards it, there’s nothing the General can do except throw you in jail, ALIVE, when you return to the base.

          So, my opinion is that Pauly was in a position to make SUGGESTIONS, but not to actually lead the situation. What happened was, since Pauly DIDN’T tell Mike he was on the short clock, Mike didn’t speed his game up and eventually, Pauly dipped and Mike isolated his chick too late, leaving the grenade with nothing to do but pull her own pin.

          On top of that, as soon as Mike understood that Pauly wasn’t interested in the extra chick, *HE* should have gone into two-minute drill mode and separated ASAP but he didn’t.

          I agree entirely with what you’re saying about “Help your boy to get on = separate”, but I didn’t see anything in the way they edited that show that said that Pauly’s game worked that way. They had multiple chicks over several times, and the pecking order was clearly Mike, Pauly, Ronnie (who wasn’t even there, because he was busy screwing Sammi), and then Vinny.

          It seems that Pauly’s game is that chicks dig how he looks, so he gets to choose from the ones that like him. They didn’t show him doing any aggressive moves towards J-Woww, but somehow, they ended up laying around while she’s looking down his pants. They didn’t show him doing aggressive moves towards the Israeli chick, but here she comes stalking him again AFTER he told her to kick rocks.

          So, From what I saw, I don’t believe that Pauly could / should have been counted on to make the isolation happen. He seemed to be the bait sidekick.. The kind of guy that helps out your rap without saying anything because the extra chicks want to meet him. It’s always easier to pull groups of chicks with groups of guys that are all on-par.

          So the way I saw the situation, there’s no way that Pauly should ever have been in control of Mike’s actions, but yes.. He should have tried to isolate the grenade to assist Mike in getting on. However, I don’t think at any point that Mike ever stopped being the actual leader.

          He should have either told Pauly to go show his chick his mega-expensive DJ equipment on the spot or he should have worked out isolation techniques with Pauly ahead of time, such as going upstairs without the alcohol and then telling Pauly & the grenade that they were going back downstairs to get the drinks and then disappear into some locked room where they can’t be interrupted.

          Having said all that, Pauly should DEFINITELY have become the leader of the grenade, which he didn’t do at all. The hierarchy is Leader > Good-Looking Chick > Wingman > Other Chick. Each guy’s in charge of controlling his own girl.

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