Why Men Cheat

Men cheat on women they’re in relationships with because their desire to enjoy their lives is greater than their interest in upholding their word to you. There are lots of other reasons, but let’s start with that one. It’s really very simple. The same way he told you he was going to take out the garbage and then DIDN’T, he told you he was only hooking up with *you* and he ISN’T.




Bill CammackThat would be known as a lie. Lies are often told to get people to do something.. In your case, lay down and spread your legs. He knows you’re not going to do that (or at least you’re going to make a big deal about it) if he tells you he’s tappin’ other chicks, so he lies, you give it up, and all is right with the world. 😀

This leads to the question “How could he lie to me? :O”. Because it’s effective. It works. It’s the same reason that people cross the street when the sign says “don’t walk”. They get where they were going faster.

So, reason #1 why men cheat is.. They felt like it. \o/

Sexual Pressure

This one’s more of an excuse than anything else, but I still need to bring it up. Women are drugs. Asking a guy why he ****** that chick is like asking a drug addict why he smoked whatever he smoked. It’s what occurs to you to do. It’s like when you walk up to a door, you elect to open it instead of walking through the glass.. it just OCCURS TO YOU to open the door. Same thing with chicks. If she’s hawt, it just naturally occurs to you to **** her. 😀

To be clear, this is quite different from the much heralded and lately overused “I’m A Sex Addict” excuse. I’m not saying that guys can’t control themselves. I’m saying the desire is automatic.

Lots of guys claim they’re going to be faithful to their girlfriends or wives while they’re in a state of no other women throwing sex at them. It’s very easy to claim you’re not going to do something that you have no opportunity to do anyway. I can say I’m not going to climb The Great Wall of China because I’m not in China. However, if I were standing right next to the wall with the proper equipment, hehehe >:D

So a lot of guys get caught out there when women press up on them because they’re not used to the rush. They’re not used to the concept “I could actually have sex with this woman right here”, and in some cases, it’s just too much for them to pass up.

Yes, I know that’s a sign of weakness and not upholding their word, etc. I agree with that entirely. I’m just saying that there are SOME times where guys legitimately expected and fully intended to be faithful to their women and just plain FAILED in the face of real opportunity. I’m not saying they should be excused for their behavior, just mentioning a possibility.

“Strange”

There’s also the concept of “Strange”, which is short for “Strange *****”, which basically means a female you haven’t had sex with yet.

A lot of guys will hook up with a gal just because it’s going to be a DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE from his regular chick. Her body is different. Her movements are different. The way she sounds is different. Her motivations are different. What she’s willing to do is different…

Sometimes, guys cheat just to see how it is.. Try something different for a change. Actually, sometimes, this works to his girlfriend’s benefit because he has such a wack experience that he realizes how good he has it at home and reapplies his focus to his woman! 😀

Breach of Contract (Looks)

This is partially the guy’s fault for downplaying the importance of his physical attraction to his woman in describing the reasons he decided to “Wife her up”, but attractiveness & access are built in parameters to romantic relationships. The reason he chose you is that you were more attractive than other women he met, or perhaps that you were LESS attractive, yet way less of a PITA (Pain In The Ass). Either way, at the time he kicked it to you, you were above a certain threshold of attractiveness according to his personal tastes.

Therefore, you may be found to be in Breach of Contract should your physical appearance change dramatically. If you were slim when he met you and then you cold lamped on the couch with the bon bons and the remote control until you put on 30-40 pounds, he just might not be interested in hooking up with you anymore.

Same thing in the other direction. If he completely enjoyed the fact that you have more bounce to the ounce and then you decide to starve yourself so you can look like the stick-figure mannequins they put on fashion show runways to emulate walking coat hangers, he just might not be interested in hooking up with you anymore.

If he liked your long, flowing dark hair and you cut it and dye it blonde, he just might not be interested in hooking up with you anymore. You don’t have to like it or even believe it. It’s just a potential fact. Apply some basic logic.. Guys don’t like hooking up with chicks that don’t turn them on when they’re SINGLE!.. Why in the hell would they want to do that when they’re in a relationship? O_o

Breach of Contract (Action)

Similarly.. If he still *IS* attracted to you and you decide to stop hooking up with him for whatever reason(s) you have, that’s tantamount to Breach of Contract as well. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t claim exclusive domain over a guy’s sexual satisfaction and then not give it up. hahaha Sorry. It doesn’t work like that. 😀

Is it your *RIGHT* not to hook up with him? Absolutely!.. Unequivocally! 😀 … And then right after that, your man’s going to figure out how he’s going to get laid since you abdicated your position. If you’re not getting under the desk with the cigar, some other chick will.. Capisce? haha YA FEEL ME? 😀

Power / Ego

Get It On! :DLots of times, guys cheat in order to prove to themselves that they can.. that they’ve still “got it”. If he’s a Hunter, for instance, he’s not going to be satisfied with resting on his laurels and relying on old-ass memories of Glory Days in way-past history to validate who he is today by recalling who he used to be.

So you pulled one chick 20 years ago, or 10 years ago, or last year or last month or last week or yesterday, who cares? That was then and this is now. What can you do TODAY? >:D Can you still pull chicks with your looks, style, charisma, gift of gab, gimmicks, lies, authentic interactions, whatever? Who are you NOW? Can you still make it happen?

This is probably one of the more unfortunate reasons because it has nothing to do with whether his current relationship is satisfying or even stellar. It just has to do with his desire to prove something to himself that hooking up with his woman AGAIN isn’t going to validate for him.

Belief System

There are some people, myself included, that just don’t believe in traditional relationships at all. I believe in real relationships. There are people that I’m down for and people that are down for me and we demonstrate that towards each other with our actions throughout history. There’s a gal I’ve never officially dated, but we’ve been together for ~14 years now. She’s met some of my girlfriends, I’ve met some of her boyfriends. If you ask the drones, I have no relationship to her at all because we’ve never declared ourselves “an item”. Meanwhile, my relationship to her is one of the most realistic that I’ve had in my life and probably will EVER have in my life. She does her thing, I do my thing and when we come together, that’s how the day went.

Unfortunately, guys find out rather quickly that if they want an actual girlfriend, they’re going to have to verbally commit to her, truthfully or otherwise. It’s like how when you go to court, they have you swear on The Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.. but what if you’re an Atheist? O_o They’re accepting your oath about something you don’t believe in in the first place.

So there are some guys that don’t believe that their girlfriends or wives don’t have any say over what he does with his personal life and promising her fidelity is completely meaningless. It’s just something she has to hear in order to get down with the program.

Revenge

Even though I think it’s extremely corny, I’m sure there are lots of times that guys hook up with other chicks in order to “get back” at their girlfriends or make them feel poorly. An argument jumps off or he feels disrespected in some way and he decides that he’s gonna “show HER!” by acting out and doing something he knows she’s not going to like.

Of course, this could lead to a spiral of revenge where she gets him back for getting her back and then he gets her back for getting him back ad nauseam. If that’s the case, you’re probably better off just breaking up with each other and saving yourselves and your friends that have to hear about and get dragged in to the drama from the misery.

Attitude

Believe it or not, there are guys that are turned off to having sex with a chick because she’s a JERK! 😀

It’s kind of funny how women seem to believe that they can dump all kinds of negativity on a guy and he’s still going to be interested in hooking up with her like he was when everything was fun between them. Meanwhile, that’s why he hits the bar for two hours after work before coming home to you. First of all, so he can avoid you for two hours.. Second, so he can have pleasant company between being at work and being at home, and Third, so he can be drunk by the time you start running your mouth about nothing important.

Some guys end up cheating because they just simply have a nicer relationship to other women than their girlfriends/wives. It’s like “This side-female is doing for me and making my life wonderful while my main chick nags and gets on my nerves every chance she gets.. Why am I doing more for a troublemaker than someone who’s on the same page with me?”.

Again, this is partially *HIS* fault for not telling his woman to shape the **** up and stop being such a pest. It’s also his fault for not screening her properly before selecting her for a long term relationship. He would have known she had a crabby demeanor if he had been talking and LISTENING to her when they went out on dates instead of ignoring her babbling and hooking up with her until she accidentally got pregnant and he got stuck. \o/

Peer Pressure

When guys are hangin’ out “gettin’ girls”, there’s a lot of peer pressure for everyone to participate. It’s actually like a little side-game to see if guys that swear up and down that they’re not interested in women other than their girlfriends change their minds in the flow of the evening.

This is another unfortunate reason, because, again, it has nothing to do with satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the current relationship. A lot of guys get caught up in this, especially when alcohol is involved, and they wake up regretting it or not being able to look their woman in the eye or feeling like they need to fess up and let her know what they did behind her back. On top of that, they don’t even have a good excuse.. Not that ANY excuse for infidelity is “good”, but “I don’t know… It just happened. \o/” is entirely horrific. 😀

The other problem with this is that some dudes just don’t want to see other dudes happy so they try to get them to hook up on purpose, specifically so they can get busted and their relationships might end. :/

It’s just sex \o/

Bill CammackMost of the time that you hear about guys cheating, they’re admitting that they got busted. Normally, they don’t get busted QUICKLY after they start cheating. You hear stuff like “I’ve been hooking up with a least 14 chicks that you know of for the last three years”. “I’ve been hooking up with some horrific-looking tattoo female for 11 months”. “I spent $4,000 on hookers”. “I skated to South America on the sneaks to spend time with The Love Of My Life”.

None of this stuff is new. This means that for a year or more, all of these women enjoyed perfectly normal relationships to their men while these guys were getting their side action. That’s because that’s what it is. Action. Recreation. Something to do. These guys didn’t tell their wives they wanted a divorce. They fully expected to continue having their cake and eating it too.

Clearly, as far as they were concerned, fidelity or monogamy had nothing to do with their marriages. They knew who they wanted to have sex with and they knew who they wanted to come home to.

The obvious exception to this is the “Love Of My Life” Governor-dude, because if he was so in love, how come he didn’t just divorce his wife and spend his days in South America with the woman he really cares about? O_o

Anyway.. A lot of guys cheat because it “Don’t Mean Nuthin’ \o/”. They can do it, enjoy their lives and get away clean with it without their wives finding out. Of course, it’s a gamble because if their wives DO find out, they could lose the Kids, the Cash and the Crib! 😀

Biology & Statistics

There have to be another thousand reasons why guys cheat that I haven’t mentioned in this post. In fact.. I’m sure there are more reasons why guys DO cheat than there are reasons why they DON’T. If you can think of any, post your favorites in the comment section, below.

Some people like to roll with the biology excuse. I’ve brought it up myself to explain why monogamy isn’t natural, but I don’t believe it usually applies to this particular topic. I don’t know anybody that has sex with the actual INTENTION of having kids. It’s usually like “Whoops! \o/”.

Even though it’s true that having children with different women increases your offspring’s chances for viability in the next generation due to differing genetic combinations, I REEEEEEALLY don’t think that’s what anybody’s thinking when they decide to screw some chick other than their girlfriend or wife. It’s about fun, sensuality, recreation, variety, enjoying the day.. Lots of things.

The only way around this, IMO, is for women to get involved with men that are looking for one girlfriend to begin with. Good Luck with that because there are so many women that are ready and willing to sell out at the drop of a hat that guys looking for long term relationships tend to go off the market relatively quickly, if not instantly.

I’m not saying that all guys cheat, but the infidelity statistics for relationships (men and women combined) has hovered around 50% for the longest. That’s 1 out of every 2 people that cheats at some point during their relationship. IMO, all you can do is put your best foot forward, bring your A-Game to the table, spend a good amount of time getting to know what your Significant Other thinks and feels, and hope for the best.

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87 thoughts on “Why Men Cheat”

  1. Dear Bill,
    You are right. You are right. You are completely correct. And the more you deliberately explain male behavior and motivation, the more I see it. When I was pregnant I saw a pandemic of pregnant women, when I strolled my newborn, prams, after the car wreck, walkers (an average of three per restaurant.It’s all where you place your awareness!
    I find myself today, after reading Why Men Cheat, with two burning questions. Most importantly, I wonder if I would SEE the truth about men’s behavior as clearly as I do, (albeit under the tutelage of Dating Genius) if my body was cooperating and I was still in the game?
    This bears examining. I, Christine, have my own column about relationships and have studied men my entire life yet NEVER saw the things I now see after reading your posts.
    This is not flattery; it is more about scientific method, and studying whether or not being a woman in the game automatically gives the Emperor clothes, or not. Would my epiphanies and suddenly seeing clearly have occured if I were still susceptible to what I love most?
    I don’t know the answer. Probably not. I probably couldn’t have derived full pleasure from a relationship thinking that you were right.So I would have thought you were wrong. I probably would have missed it, like aboriginals not seeing Columbus’ ships because they couldn’t conceive of ships. I think what motivates most women is: how powerfully can we make ourselves believe in our man’s love and its proof, his faithfulness.
    Maybe Im not finished with men. One ovary regenerated, (as in grew back after removal.) So my eggs are all dressed up in Sunday school shoes with no where to go, at 52.
    But other problems have kept me sidelined. And, in that limbo I found another type of regeneration, that of my own ability to see the truth, clearly, where men are concerned.
    I see it at bars. At concerts. I see it on bike rides to a park. Everywhere. “Damn, that’s exactly what Bill Cammack is talking about” I say to anyone around. And I never had eyes to see it before. That is evident in MY flowery embroidered writing about men and love and sex.
    Would I be able to see the truths you offer up if I was bedazzled or up for being bedazzled by a man? I don’t think so.
    I’m pretty certain that you are right, and we can’t hear it. And the reason you have to say it so many times in myriad ways is because your female audience can’t see the forest for all those gorgeous trees.
    The other question? What inspires you to keep stating (what to you is) the obvious?
    If I’m right that women have a solid refusal to accept what you say because of some spell we are under for most of our lives, then your advice and the intended recipients might as well be frozen in time, separate, like the figures in Keats’ Ode to a Grecian Urn.
    I’m chewing on a double blind study and how to screen.
    Christine

    1. Hey Christine. 🙂 Thanks for the comments.

      I understand completely what you’re saying and I don’t take it as flattery because I’m not talking about things that I’ve made up myself. I’m talking about obvious, natural motivations for guys to do what they do as naturally felt by and expressed from a guy who feels such motivations as poignantly as I feel wind against my skin on a windy day or a bed beneath me when I lay down on one.

      I don’t know anyone that pursues women they’re not attracted to. I don’t know anyone that wants to have sex with a female that physically repulses him. I don’t know anyone that would select a woman with a crabby personality over one with a fun, lovely personality if all other things were equal. I *DO* know guys who think their girls are STONE COLD IDIOTS but stay with them because being smart wasn’t involved in their job description in the first place. I *DO* know guys that put up with crabby attitudes because the sex is good. All I’m doing is describing life as usual, not writing descriptions of some fringe lifestyle I made up in my own mind.

      As far as women seeing the truth, it’s tough. The Truth undermines all the brainwashing you received from before your earliest memories that you now have access to. I’m not saying, by ANY means that *ALL* guys cheat. I’m saying that the statistics have been 50% every time I’ve ever checked, so selling the “Happily Ever After” fairytale is disingenuous at the least and sinister at the most. SOME people subscribe to that particular dream and others don’t. If you subscribe and you come up against someone that doesn’t in the dating game, they’re going to eat your lunch.

      If you can’t see the *POSSIBILITY* that a guy’s going to cheat on you, you won’t see him cheat on you. If you are TOLD that he cheated on you, you’ll probably get mad at the person that told you that for bursting your bubble.

      What’s funny about this whole situation is that the only way to even HAVE a strong relationship with someone is to embrace the potential for treachery. You have GOT to see it as “He COULD cheat on me but elects not to because he feels XYZ about me” instead of “There’s no way he’s going to cheat on me because he said so” or “There’s no way he’s going to cheat on me because I know that I’m better than other women”. Ask Halle Berry and Sandra Bullock about that one. Remaining blind to the game just makes y’all back seat drivers. It doesn’t increase your chances of having a monogamous relationship. It DOES increase your chances of THINKING you have a monogamous relationship, which doesn’t do you an ounce of good AND could end up hurting you eventually.

      What inspires me to keep stating what I consider to be the obvious is that it’s really, really, really, really, REALLY ANNOYING to me to keep running into sleeping women. Sleeping. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It’s so annoying to run into yet another woman that’s clueless about what’s really going on in her love life that you wouldn’t even believe it. Hooking up with chicks is literally like stealing the proverbial candy from the baby. A SLEEPING baby, at that! 😀 So annoying.

      I’m a sportsman. I enjoy The Game. I enjoy interacting with women that are intelligent, awake and aware. If that makes it harder for me to get on, so be it! 😀 I’m bored to death with the concept that I can chat some chick up, tell her we’re boyfriend & girlfriend or that I want to marry her or whatever I figured out she wanted and then she’ll hand over her entire life to me on the spot. Bored.

      I’m hanging out with this chick, right? and she claims that she’s over her ex-boyfriend, except every time dude texts her, she hops on her phone and texts him right back with something she thinks is snide and condescending. If she didn’t care, she wouldn’t respond. It’s painfully obvious to me that she was interacting with him because she’s still addicted to him. I could see the HOPE on her face when her phone would buzz again and she would check to see what he replied to her reply.

      I’m tired of women that don’t realize how easy they are to manipulate. I write about this stuff so I can get it out and let it go. If I didn’t say anything about it, I’d be mad at myself for not doing so. I’ve been writing my blog for 3 or 4 years now and it NEVER occurred to me to write something so simple as “Why Men Cheat” because I thought we were all operating with this stuff as a ‘given’. It’s only been recently, and mainly though my conversations with reader “Sophia” that I’ve realized how entrenched and invested women are in the concept that when they select a man, that’s all she wrote and he’s never going to hook up with another chick while they’re still together, even though statistics and HISTORY have shown that 50% of relationships involve cheating.

      My other reward, besides self-therapy is the few times that women that didn’t get it before ACTUALLY get it and learn new tools to select mates in a better fashion and look out for themselves more when they’re already in relationships. There are lots of women who are hip to the game and have been for ages. They’re not the ones I’m mainly speaking to. They’re just as amazed/appalled as I am about how easy lots of women are to get over on.

      A reader came through a month or more ago talking about her boyfriend was drifting away from her, partially because she hadn’t hooked up with him in the 9 months they had been dating and that she was thinking about giving him some to rekindle the relationship. I’m like “WHY IS IT that NOBODY told her that’s not going to work?”.. This is what I mean. It’s the blind leading the blind and generation after generation of females get told the wrong thing and make the wrong decisions. According to what she came back and said, she changed her mind after our conversations and let the situation go. If that’s true, I feel like her life is going to be infinitely better for not tossing sex at him and having him take it and STILL leave her.

      So I write stuff so I can personally get over it. I said what I had to say about the topic. It’s out there. I’m not being part of the problem by staying quiet about it. That’s good enough for me. Also, when things like this come up in IRL conversation, I can link chicks to my blog instead of saying all this stuff over and over and over.

      Make no mistake.. I’m all for the fellaz bagging chicks and getting laid. I’d just personally rather see more girls and women making EDUCATED DECISIONS instead of being clueless or deliberately deluding themselves so they can pretend they’re living out a fairytale they were sold when their parents gave them baby dolls & tea sets to “play” with and painted their rooms pink because that’s what their parents did to them and that’s what their parents parents did to them…

      1. Wait, I helped how? It sort of sounds like I’m the idiot that made you realize how naive women are.

        I have a question though. This advice you gave above was that if you’re not having sex with him, he’ll cheat on you with someone who will.

        But you gave the girl in the situation who had dated a guy for nine months and hadn’t had sex with him and was about to leave her was not to have sex with him to keep him. That directly contradicts your advice to sleep with a guy to keep him.

        I’m totally confused.

        1. hehehe Not at all, Sophia. 🙂 My point was that our interactions have helped me because you bring intelligent, coherent points to the discussion from the female side instead of “WAAAH, WAAAAH, I don’t like what you said because life isn’t supposed to work like that! WAAAH”, which is normally what I hear instead of anything that’s at all useful. It’s totally to your credit, haha, I don’t perceive you to be an idiot at all. If I did, I wouldn’t bother responding at length to your points.

          As far as “cheat on you with someone who will”, let me make my point about that clear. 😀 If you’re not having sex with a guy, you have NO. RELATIONSHIP. TO. HIM. AT. ALL. None. Y’all are friends or roommates or y’all do stuff together or even tell people you’re boyfriend & girlfriend, but in reality, dude’s going to augment what you’re not doing for him with another chick.

          Therefore, I wouldn’t actually call his having sex with an interested and willing female “cheating”, because it’s the entire reason he would have a girlfriend in the first place. He wanted to have that with you.. You’re not producing.. Next?

          In fact, in a lot of cases, the girl who thinks she’s the girlfriend finds out she’s actually “the other woman” because ‘her man’ is way more engrossed in his relationship with the so-called side piece than he is with his so-called significant other.

          Having put that clarifying explanation on the table.. I’ll agree to what you’re saying, that “if you’re not having sex with him, he’ll cheat on you with someone who will”.

          Now.. I don’t know how much you read of the situation with the gal that didn’t hook up with “her boyfriend” for nine months, but she stated that she was/is a virgin, which definitely affects my advice to her.

          Virgins need to have sex for the first time with a guy that cares about her and wants to show her a good time. This guy was clearly on his way out the door after getting stalled out on sex for the better part of an entire YEAR! 😀 She was absolutely, DEFINITELY NOT going to receive proper treatment from this time at that stage of the relationship, so whether she would have said three months or nine months, my advice to her would have been “THIS isn’t the guy for you to hook up with. Let this one slide and start over from scratch”.

          Setting her virginity to the side, let’s deal with the actual situation. Nine Months is completely, entirely and absolutely unacceptable for ZERO SEX from your so-called significant other. In fact, I wrote about this back in 2008 from the women’s side of things in “Sexless Marriage? AWWW HELLLS NAW!!!”.

          Guys will not stand for this. They’re going to take care of it themselves, get involved regularly in porno, get a steady side chick or hook up with any chick that wants to give them some while you sit at home thinking you’re jacking up your man’s program by not giving him any. You don’t have any control at all over HIS ability to get laid.. You only control YOUR ability to get some (with him or whomever).

          So.. By nine months down the line, not only does he consider you sexually worthless, he may actually hate you. In court, it’s known as a “Hostile Witness”. That’s when someone’s supposed to be on your team when you call them to the stand and then they don’t cooperate with you and say what they told you beforehand they were going to say. So basically.. Because you reneged on your promise, he gets to treat you like the other side called you to the stand.. Like you’re an ENEMY.

          By becoming someone’s SO, you’re pledging to handle their sexual satisfaction and they’re pledging to handle yours. If you’re not going to do it briefly? Cool. Everybody has their off days. If you’re not going to do it for a while, guys are gonna “get in where they fit in” with the next chick or whatever options they elect to pursue. If you don’t do it for MONTHS, you are now perpetually cockblocking him by wasting time and space where he could have declared himself SINGLE and been rid of you and your uselessness.

          THIS is why I told her to forget it as far as getting him back nine months after the fact by giving him some. It wasn’t going to work. He’s already been getting his for, what.. EIGHT MONTHS ALREADY? 😀 What difference does it make to him if you give him some today? \o/ None. Who cares?

          How long is he supposed to wait for the next piece? Another nine months? It’s completely insane. There’s no way at all that he would have reacted favorably to her FIIIIIIINALLY giving it up. It would have made it even worse for that particular chick as a virgin to have her first experience being getting pumped and dumped because some guy’s like “Damn.. This ***** FINALLY gave it up! Jeez! :/”.

          So the reason what I said isn’t a contradiction is that if you hold out for a little while, you can get a guy’s attention by getting back down with the program. Once you take so long that he crosses the line where he takes offense to your not hooking up with him, you’ve made him an enemy, even though he’s not going to tell you so, just in case you decide to give it up one of these days.

          He’ll definitely take it, but that doesn’t make you his Ace Boon Coon all of a sudden, like everything’s cool and back to the way it was nine months ago. You’re just an enemy he got to ****.

          1. So what would your advice to her in picking her next boyfriend be? I’ve often wondered how virgins who want to stay that way until marriage would work the situation, especially since I’d imagine there are many less male virgins out there and the ones who are are probably EXTREMELY undesirable. So that leaves a guy who’s used to having sex.

            But if she doesn’t want to have sex, how would she deal with that? I guess they could both date other people and be “friends” until they decided they wanted to get married (so the guy could get his sex on with other people), but would a lot of guys be down for that? Prob not.

            I’m really curious what your advice to her is.

            1. My advice to her in picking her next boyfriend is “You don’t HAVE a boyfriend unless you’re having sex with him”. Period.

              Considering that she was considering hooking up with him in order to keep him around, I don’t think her goal was to remain a virgin until she was married. I *DO* think her goal was to have sex with a guy that DESERVED for her to hook up with him AND who would treat her properly before, during and after the event. I think that’s something great to strive for and ultimately achievable.

              All I’m saying is that if she’s not hooking up with him, her position is EASILY, EASILY, *EASILY* stolen by the first girl that’s down with the program.

              I hate to keep bringing up Tiger Woods, but he just gave me so much ammo to work with. Do you think he could have told his wife he wanted to shove his **** up her *** and slap her in the face like the dirty whore she is, blah blah blah? Nope! 😀 So, if that’s not what she’s into, he can do that with paid porno bitches. Talk all the yang he wants. Put it anywhere he wants for as long as he wants.. If that’s how he likes to get down, the options are for his wife to hook up with him like that or for him to do his dirt on the sneaks with other chicks.

              Same thing with Clinton. Was Hillary getting under the table with the cigar? Nope! 😀 Monica was definitely down for it, though, so she got the nod. It’s really very simple.

              Guys have people to hang out with and talk. Those are called OTHER GUYS. There’s no need to declare yourself in a relationship with a chick for any reason other than sex. Everything BUT sex you can do with any chick that you have a platonic relationship to, strictly by definition. There’s no such thing as a girlfriend that’s not giving it up. \o/

              So my advice to her is the same as my advice to all other women. Wake the **** up, recognize The Game for what it is and then decide whether you want to be involved or not.

              If she decides she wants a boyfriend, she needs to recognize that if she stalls him for nine months AGAIN, she’s going to be a Hostile Witness AGAIN and there’s going to be no recovering from that, like bending metal and then trying to bend it back into its original shape.

              She should definitely wait until she feels comfortable with him and she WANTS to hook up with him, but she needs to be realistic that until she’s serving him properly, any chick that steps up to handle that business is going to kick her out of the top slot and she might never receive the opportunity to get back in position.

          2. Having a girlfriend is more than just sex, unless you’re thinking of short-term flings, then that’s another story.

            As far as I’m concerned, having a girlfriend is about having someone that you can share time, memories, experiences, and having mutual and enjoyable conversation. The difference between that and a friend, is the frequency by which you have these interactions.

            Last I checked, if you have a girlfriend, you tend to greet/exit with a kiss, you might hold hands in public, sit next to each other in public, you might share a space with the person without feeling awkward, and having someone that you can count on to share those moments with.

            Granted, you can have f***buddies with your friends, but then, are they really your friends? Do you know much about the person, would you help them if they needed something, would you sit on the phone or online with that person for 30-60 minutes hearing them talk about something?

            For you and the readers: If you read my blog, you will receive some insight on why I have the opinion(s) that I do.

            1. Thanks for the comments, Mikey.

              I assume that what you’re responding to is where I said “Therefore, I wouldn’t actually call his having sex with an interested and willing female “cheating”, because it’s the entire reason he would have a girlfriend in the first place. He wanted to have that with you.. You’re not producing.. Next?”

              I agree with you that having a girlfriend is more than just sex. However, without sex, if a guy LIKES SEX, then regardless of whom he calls his girlfriend, he’s going to get it from whatever chicks turn him on and are willing to get down with the program. Period.

              The topic here is “Why Men Cheat”. If a guy has a girlfriend that’s not producing, and he hooks up with another chick, he’s not cheating on his girlfriend because she already refused to do that with him.

              If she’s actually making herself sexually useful, and he STILL has sex with other women, yeah, he’s cheating (assuming he told her he was going to be sexually faithful to her).

              I also agree with you about sharing time, memories, experiences, and having mutual and enjoyable conversation.

              The frequency at which you enjoy these things with a woman has *NOTHING* to do with whether she’s your girlfriend or not.

              Nothing.

              The example is the guy that’s in the Long-Distance Relationship with one woman that he only sees physically once every two months. In between that time, he spends platonic time with females that he knows, every single week…. Which woman is his girlfriend? o_O

              hint: Its not the one that he sees more frequently or spends more physical time with.

              As far as greeting women with kisses, I do that every day and I’m not dating any of them. I get what you’re saying, though, and can agree with you that there are some things that you do more with a girlfriend than you do with females you haven’t given an official title to.

              The f***buddies conversation is always an interesting one. I agree with you that people tend to misuse the “Friends” part of “Friends With Benefits” (FWB), and that just because you’re messing with someone doesn’t mean that you’re actually friends with them.. and just because you’re friends with someone doesn’t mean you’re messing with them.

              Overall, on the topic of men cheating on women, the point I was making is that if a gal isn’t doing her best to satisfy her man, he’s going to get satisfaction wherever he can.

  2. A thread of compassion runs through it.
    Amen to your powerful words, honesty and the simplicity with which you present IT.
    You write about the kernel of the problem. Women’s belief systems upon which we were reared.

    1. Thanks, Christine. 🙂

      It’s a weird thing to write about because guys don’t want y’all to know that we’re using your own brainwashing against you so we can get laid and women don’t want to believe y’all can be so easily manipulated. \o/

      1. Bill! Again, you are right! These are the two salient points:
        1.Guys use our brainwashing against us.
        2.We don’t want to believe that it’s true.
        You distill the reality, and deliver it succinctly. You have a fine grasp on the problem, obviously. And you are also acutely aware that “you can lead a horse to water but….”
        You have mentioned in posts that you wish you had to try harder, and that you have felt that the conquests were too easy, and were disillusioned seeing all of the sleeping women ZZZZZ!
        I feel perplexed that women in love can do such a brilliant job of bringing out the best in their man and can love so completely, yet more often than not these individuals don’t even begin to “get” that there is more, much more to the picture.
        Unduping ourselves and then others can be a slow, arduous process.
        Or perhaps Doris Lessing is right, and we already are unduped, yet choose to bask in ignorance, not ready to face the music. “We know things long before we know we do” Lessing writes.
        We simply cannot admit it to ourselves, fully. We are immured in it, and there is a natural selection component to it- we stay longer with the father of our child(ren) than we would if we weren’t capable of being Duped.
        Christine

        1. Naturally, I have a fine grasp on the problem because I’ve used it against women to fantastic effect for literally decades already.

          This is why you don’t see any comments ANYWHERE in my blog from guys telling me they think I’m wrong about what I’m saying. Feel free to look. I don’t censor people’s comments unless they’re spam or their wording is too vulgar for the standards I’ve set for my blog or they’re personally attacking another commenter.

          Guys know I’m right and they tell me all the time, IRL. Women who have their heads screwed on right tell me I’m right also AND they’re incredulous about how so many women keep going out like suckers on a daily basis. We sit there in the bar listening to these clown-ass females blabbering about their ridiculous love lives that they can’t make heads nor tails of and we look at each other, shake our heads in amazement and clink glasses.

          I would love for it to be different, but it isn’t. The only way for the playing field to be even is for women to realize what men are coming after them for and to consciously take an intelligent stance. If the guys are all on horses charging you, plant your spears in the ground on an angle like Braveheart. Don’t let them run you over and decimate your ranks.

          If you know that guys did you wrong in the past, don’t turn around and tell your daughters and nieces that everything’s going to work out fine as long as they know how to cook, clean, bear & raise children. If you know that some marriages last forever and others end in divorce, don’t act like they ALWAYS last forever.

          None of this stuff that women are being told to do actually works. The only guys it works on are HERBS that you don’t want to be married to in the first place. If you want to hook up with a weak-ass dude, make sure you make him jump through a bunch of hoops. The guy that jumps through all the hoops is EITHER a Herb that will do whatever you say whenever you say it from now until he croaks OR he’s a PLAYER that knows that once he makes it through the hoops, you’re going to psych yourself out into giving him your entire life, so it’s well worth pretending to care what you say or think.

          Neither one of those situations is a win. :/

          Wake up. Get smart. Figure out what you want and present it in an intelligent, coherent fashion and keep meeting guys until you find one that’s looking for what you’re offering.

          1. Lots of humor about the HERBS. Just because it is funny doesn’t make it any less true. Ironically the women who marry the HERBS are most often the ones cheating themselves. Double entendre.

          2. My question is WHY would a player jump through all those hoops in order to have you fall deeply for him & give him your entire life, as you put it?

            I mean, is it the challenge? I don’t understand — if a girl is clearly after something different than they are (a relationship, marriage, kids, etc) & has said so upfront, there are a bazillion girls in the city that are cool with just fucking around. Why do some guys feel the need to go along with the program in order to sleep with these women and then it’s a different story afterward? And how do you avoid these guys? It’s really fucked up in my opinion.

            1. A player jumps through hoops because he feels like ******* you. However you fall for him or whatever you give up is all in the game. He doesn’t actually care about that. That’s *your* problem.

              As far as your “lots of girls that are willing to get down” scenario, what’s the point in hooking up with a ho? You already know you can do that. Everybody does that. It’s like when you go to a strip club, you know damned well there are girls there that you can get to do things for money. That’s pretty damned boring. It’s way more fun to get a regular girl to strip for you.

              I agree with you that it’s messed up. All I’m saying is that chicks are targets. The sooner y’all accept that, the sooner you’ll be able to protect yourselves from obvious game.

              You’re basically asking me “Why do guys eat steak?”… um… Because they feel like it. They see something they want and try to take it. Nobody cares what your relationship desires are. Nobody cares how your day was. Nobody cares about your drama. A guy’s either turned on by you or he’s not. If he is, he might throw his hat in the ring and try to get some from you. It’s really not any more complicated than that.

              The only way to avoid guys like this is to meet guys via mutual friends that can vouch for guys you want to date. If you don’t have any references for a guy, he could be ANYBODY and trying to do ANYTHING and/or EVERYTHING to you regardless of what you think or want.

              1. Thanks for the clarification, I understand now. Although it might seem very obvious to you, if you believe in the basic goodness of human beings (and I do), you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. It’s hard to understand why people do shitty things, although this blog is helping a lot and I am understanding.

                It’s a shame that the people who believe in the goodness in the world, who are happy and generally the people most want to be around in general are also the most easily hurt & used. I mean, who really wants a world full of cynics that are bitter & jaded? To use your analogy above, no one wants the used up hos. Everyone wants to corrupt a nice girl. And that sucks. But it’s good to know exactly why and how it happens, so thanks Bill.

                1. You’re welcome. Again.. I’m not trying to say anything AGAINST what you’re saying. I’m just trying to explain the playing field to you from my viewpoint.

                  I believe in the basic goodness of human beings myself. I also believe in greed and selfishness. In your realm, it might be called “temptation” and it might be something that people strive to combat. In my realm, it’s called “desire fulfillment” and it’s all that really matters at the end of the day.

                  Did you hook up with the chick you were attracted to? The answer is either “yes” or “no”. If the answer is “Yes, and she’s in love with me and I’m not interested in hooking up with her ever again in life”, that still amounts to “Yes”. If the answer is “No, but we’re good friends and will stay in touch until both of us are dead”, that still amounts to “No”.

                  So.. While I agree with the concept of basic human goodness, there’s also basic human desire, which can override “the greater good” at any given time.

                  My point, I suppose, is that if you bring a knife to a gunfight, you’re going to get shot. My opinion is that if you don’t understand what The Game is, you’re flying blind and it’s pot luck whether you end up with something good or not. I think it’s better to recognize The Game for what it really is and come to the table prepared to do battle if you HAVE TO, even though you’re hoping that you can avoid that, meet someone that’s as into you as you’re into them and make a long-term, meaningful relationship out of it.

                  For instance.. The times that I have declared a chick as “with me” and indicated some kind of consistent devotion to them, I went into that knowing that other guys were going to be coming after my girls. My physical & visual tastes are higher than average, so I fully expect every guy and his father to want to **** girls that I select to spend time with. It’s part of The Game. If you don’t like that, date busted chicks and you don’t have to worry about anyone else kickin’ it to them.

                  If I adopted the stance of “Life is fair and Humans are good and nobody’s going to kick it to a girl that claims she’s ‘spoken for'”, I’d most likely eventually get blindsided by reality.

                  Instead.. I inform chicks that I’m spending time with in public that, for instance, when I step away from her to go to the bathroom, guys are going to descend on her trying to kick game. I don’t tell her that because I give a damn whether they kick it or whether she goes for it, but because I can SEE THEM sweating the girl I’m chillin’ with and I know that as soon as I’m out of Line Of Sight, they’re going to try to throw their hat in the ring and then scamper away before I return. Human Desire.

                  Same thing if SHE goes to the bathroom herself. Guys are gonna kick it while she’s waiting on the line or offer to buy her a drink or hand her a business card. *YAWN* It’s regular. There’s no reason to get upset at people like this because they’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing. They see a girl they want to **** so they talk to her and try to get on. No big deal. It’s *MY* job to make sure I’m showing her enough of a good time that they can’t trample my game. If they can, more power to them and they can have her and I’ll just shift the rest of the chicks up the roster to fill the slot she just vacated.

                  When I was in school, a close friend of mine tried to kick it to my girlfriend on a regular basis. SHE told me he was kickin’ it. My other homeboys told me they SAW HIM kickin’ it. I never mentioned it to him and never will. It doesn’t matter. He’s *SUPPOSED* to want to **** girls that I’ve selected. In turn, I’M supposed to bring enough to the table that he can never get on with her until I release her. I’m not upset about that. I find it interesting and funny. I also would have found it funny if he had actually hooked up with her because that would have just been a different branch of history. One way or the other, the song remains the same…

                  It’s all in The Game. 😀

  3. hey good post.

    As seen from the post there are many reasons why men cheat. however i feel there are 2 main ones to add. 1st of all even if as a women you do everything right in a relationship that you are supposed to do then you still may get cheated on. The reason for this is that no matter how good you are you are only 1 of you and some men just don’t want to be monogamous. The 2nd is that you may have been added to a preset roster in the beginning so in reality you were being cheated on from before you even entered the picture this is usually a no win situation either.

    1. Thanks man.

      1. “You may still get cheated on” – Absolutely. Some guys are totally disinterested in monogamy but they know that they have to profess to it to get chicks to lay down. It’s an easy enough lie to tell and rather fruitful.

      Also, some guys are just JERKS or LIARS to begin with. 😀 Nothing they ever told you was based on truth. They told you whatever they needed to in order to get what they wanted from you.

      2. “You may have been added to a preset roster” – Completely Agreed. A lot of people have this preconceived notion that if someone declares themselves “Single” they’re not ******* anybody. All that means is that I’m not telling you who I’m involved with OR how many people I’m involved with. You’re entirely taking your chances that you come in the door as the #3 or worse person on the totem pole and from the first day that you thought you were in a monogamous relationship, you were already the side action.

      I actually go into situations in the opposite direction. I *ASSUME* a chick’s screwing somebody the first time I’m introduced to her, look her in the eye and shake her hand. Then, once we chat each other up and she says she’s not seeing anybody…….. I assume she’s lying and continue to carry myself as if she’s already seeing someone and I’m either joining the totem pole or not. 😀

      It’s actually incredibly arrogant and perhaps delusional to believe that someone wasn’t having sex at all and then when they met YOU, they started to feel turned on and felt like they wanted to have sex with you all of a sudden.

  4. I have a request, Bill. I’d like a post from a happily married man (if you know one) about how he chose his wife, & why his relationship works, how he got into it, what he liked about her initially, how he fell in love, etc. I think it would be a nice contrast from you since you’re basically only in the hookup culture.

    1. I’m going to post that to my Facebook right now. I doubt I’ll get any takers, since happily married men normally like to keep their business out tha street, but we’ll see what happens. If I get something good from someone, I’ll definitely post it here with a link back to their blog.

      I can tell you this much.. It starts with the guy actually WANTING to have JUST ONE female. The only other way is if he was in The Game and he met someone that was so fantastic that he elected to retire.

  5. hey, can i make a quick motion… I say we strike the word “CHEAT” from our vocabulary. First, I am not cheating MYSELF. I am being true to what i wanted at that very moment. I am not cheating you because its a good guess that we dont spend 24hours a day together, so technically I cant cheat you out of what you never had. Second, the word itself has so much baggage attached that its actually over used. He thought of her! Wow emotional cheating. He talked to his ex! Cheating waiting to happen. You just met him 3 weeks ago, slept with him once and found out that he still had a friends with benefits, hmmmm… you gonna get serious with him? naw he already cheated. Anything and Everything is a form of cheating if its spun the right way. Why is this a problem? Well because the guy you with now who makes time for you, never looks at anyone else, and doesnt have any friends that you know of giving him some… Well he is a saint and marriage material! Woman spend so much time labeling things/men as cheaters that they dont notice how some men side step those markers and continue doing them. So away with cheating… We need a new phrase!

    1. Don’t get it twisted — no one calls it cheating unless P goes in V (or A, or M). It is cheating when you have agreed to be exclusive (had the talk), and one person has some kind of sex with someone outside the relationship. That’s all it is. Anyone who tries to include outside definitions is crazy.

      “First, I am not cheating MYSELF. I am being true to what i wanted at that very moment.”
      If you promised someone else something, you are responsible to them to uphold it at all times. No one makes agreements with themselves.

      “I am not cheating you because its a good guess that we dont spend 24hours a day together, so technically I cant cheat you out of what you never had.”
      So it’s cool that the dealership that you bought your car from allows other people to drive it when you’re not there? I mean, you’re not driving it 24 hours a day, so they’re not cheating you out of what you never had. If that’s cool with you, then don’t complain when you get it back with nicks, bumps, a trashed gear shift, and smelling like cigarettes.

      1. I agree with you that when someone agrees to something.. ANYTHING.. They should be true to their word. If a dude tells a chick he’s going to be exclusively physical with her and then he turns around and “cheats” on her, his word is garbage and he should feel like a crumb.

        However.. As we’ve previously discussed, if a chick doesn’t give it up for an extended amount of time, that’s tantamount to breach of contract.

        The analogy would be how some chicks have kids and let their mothers raise and feed those kids. After a while, the kid might get used to the grandmother nurturing him and actually consider his grandmother his mother.

        You don’t get automatic mother props because you popped the kid out. You have to put in the consistent work. After a while, the kid is going to stop perceiving you as an important person in his life.

        Similarly, if a guy and gal agree to be physically exclusive with each other and she stops producing, he’s either going to dump her or get his thing on behind her back. The idea that she can stop having sex with him and retain the perks he agreed to bring to the table doesn’t hold water.

        1. Thanks Sophia for the challenge to put it out on FB, and for your clever metaphors stated strongly. When Bill referenced you on this post it was impressive; he stated how influential you had been on his thought processes about men and women and relationships.
          I think all of the comments are wonderful, and the directions this subject is primed to take are marvellous. Juicy. I may have to cannibalize experience a bit to refresh my memories and get to the truth.

        2. I don’t remember saying anything about the girl not upholding her end of things, I was just responding to Frank’s comment about cheating (and I don’t think he said anything about that either). So I’m not sure where this comment is coming from.

          Yes, both parties should uphold their end of things. Same goes for the boyfriend: he shouldn’t be surprised when that guy “friend” of hers who’s always listening to what’s going on in her life while he’s too busy playing Halo ends up stealing his girl.

          1. @Sophia: You comment so much that I may have mixed ideas from different threads.

            My point, overall, is that people shouldn’t commit to each other unless they both mean it and intend to live by it.

            From the female side, however, there’s this pervasive belief that if you’re in a declared relationship to a guy and you elect to stop hooking up with him, his only option for sex is you and you’ve shut him down.

            That’s not how life works.

            That’s how guys TELL YOU life works because you have to believe that you have some kind of leverage over him. If he doesn’t take out the trash or come to your mother’s house for Sunday dinner, you can hurt him via Sex Boycott.

            In fact, the only sex you can remove from his life is your own. If a guy explores his options after that instead of dumping the chick, it’s labeled “cheating”, however, there’s no reciprocal term for the chick stopping having sex with him. It’s just called ‘her choice’.

  6. Ok, let me make this clear-CHEATING is a non term when all this is involved. First thing is CHEATING implies a game. Your objective is to domesticate me, my objective is to be happy. What makes me happy may not be being domesticated. The term CHEATING also is how many women wind up in losing situations. Most women treat each CHEAT as an individual moment in time and not for the running problem that it is(FYI: I said MOST dont want to be bombarded by those who read that as ALL and now want to defend themselves). If you caught you man with other women three times in 36months-cheating implies that he cheated 3 times but you managed to control the other 33 months. Not So. Your mans problem wasnt/isnt that he is a cheater, its that he is a dishonest, untrustworthy LIAR and that is a big difference from being a cheater. You see it as he strayed 3x and the reality is that you allowed yourself to be lied to for 36 months. There is a big difference between the individual cheat and someones complete lack of understanding for what others consider honesty. assuming you even had the talk because even if we did I still didnt cheat on you. Cheating implies the game and ownership of the outcome. Although this may very well be a game, you dont own me or my time. You do own your own self respect and have every right to not want to deal with me after the first time I let you down. You own exactly what i own,an understanding that we are to be loyal to what has been agreed to. If i strayed i didnt cheat, I just exposed myself as the disloyal untrustworthy prick that you should discard immediately. If you insist as seeing as a one time “cheat”, I play the “Im sorry” part of the game until you relax your defenses again.

    I never said i didnt believe in the the negativity that envelopes a situation, I just said the the word CHEAT needs to be changed because its fundamentally in acuarate.

    1. Agreed. I think the illusion of ownership is a major factor in relationships. Everybody buys into it. “Because I’m with you, I’m not going to accept sex from any other chick”. That’s the “buy-in” for the relationship. Guys need to say it and women need to believe it.

      Unfortunately.. A lot of times, when a guy is caught “cheating”, it’s treated exactly as you said.. an anomaly. Something that happened to have occurred once in six months. Actually, you only CAUGHT HIM once in six months, and if you let him slide, it might be another six months before you catch him again.

      I also think this leads to a false sense of security on the part of the main girlfriend. She feels like any other chicks are skanks or hoes or homewreckers, when in fact, dude might have just as ‘serious’ a relationship to one or all of them as he has to this chick that thinks she has the situation on lock.

  7. I’m not a big fan of the breach of contract terminology. That sounds like made up justification. There are tons of elements that arise during ones relationship that we hope not to experience. Are we going to call breach of contract on everything? Nagging – Breach of contract, Leaving the toilet seat up – Breach of contract.

    We all have preconceived expectations going into a partnership, but whose fault is that really? If things are not working out, then I, as the man, should begin to ask whether I wants this in his life or not. Pretending everything is okay and having an affair is simply being a fraud within the relationship.

    If regularity of sexual intimacy is that important to the progression of the relationship, then there must be open communication from the partners in question. If there is no compromise, then instead of saying “well I’m going to go get it elsewhere”, the partner in question should really honestly ask themselves is this an aspect of the relationship they can deal with. If they can deal with it. Don’t cheat, but if they can’t, then they are lying to themselves and their partner by getting it elsewhere.

    Part of a relationship is a commitment to try to form a common understanding. Cheating is just an easy way out to a means, when other more acceptable means to achieve the goal exists. Skewing the parameters of what it means to be in a relationship creates moral ambiguity.

    Your reasoning about why men cheat is valid, don’t get me wrong, but the presentation of it all bends the morality of the situation itself to the point where they can just send their spouse this link and let the blog post be their lawyer.

    I am not a big fan of the biology excuse, because there is a difference between impulse to do, and the act itself. We possess a rational mind, so for the most part we should be able to battle against the impulses. The same way if someone pisses you off and your first thought is to bash his head in – you can either A) Bash his head in or B) Walk away. It is the same with battling our natural impulses to be attracted to others besides our partners.

    Also, you once said on another blog, that cheating has ZERO EFFECT is the other person never finds out. That is not true. For some, the guilt and shame of the act can be overwhelming that it does have an impact on the relationship that was tainted, even if the action itself is not disclosed.

    1. Excellent points, BM. Thanks for commenting. 🙂

      We all determine individually what’s breach of contract and what isn’t. If a dude doesn’t take out the garbage eight times in a row, he might get dumped. If a chick doesn’t hook up with a guy for three weeks (?days?) in a row, she might get dumped.

      The “fault” in the preconceived notions is our own, meaning the individual that brings them to the table inside his or her head.

      As far as electing to dump the chick rather than to cheat on her, it’s not that simple. 🙂 You might be getting everything you want in life from her, EXCEPT an interesting, sexy and satisfying love life. You would be A FOOL to eject a chick with so many qualities that you LOVE so you can spend time with a lesser chick that happens to want to hook up with you at least three times a day.

      Then, you have what could potentially be Tiger Woods Syndrome. What if you FEEL LIKE telling chicks you want to pull their hair and slap them in the face while you **** them in the ***, but you know damned well that your wife a) isn’t going for that, and b) would look at you like a monster or a criminal if you told her what you were actually thinking while you were having sex with her. Lots of guys aren’t willing to sacrifice a good home life with a woman that’s perfect for raising their kids and cooking them dinner when they come home so they can hang out with ultra-tattooed skanks *COUGHjessejamesCOUGH*

      I’m not saying that’s right or fair.. I’m just saying that it obviously happens on a regular basis.

      “Open Communication” is paramount. Agreed. Without communication and trust, you have nothing at all.

      Also agreed that “cheating instead of dumping” is lying to partners and themselves, however, that’s a moral issue. Lots of people are cool with lying and utilize it to great effect in their lives.

      “Part of a relationship is a commitment to try to form a common understanding.”

      I think this is a very important sticking point when it comes to relationships. Ideally, both people come to the table wanting to compromise with the other one and make the best of the situation for both of them. Lots of times, however, a guy hooks up with a chick because he likes screwing her and whatever other fringe benefits come along with spending time with her. In cases like that, compromise is never on the table because her purpose, to him, is sex and entertainment. It’s like do you care what happened in a stripper’s day? Hellz Naw. You give her the money, she does what you told her to do and that’s the extent of y’all’s relationship. A lot of women find out too late that their man never saw them as an equal to begin with and never intended to follow their lead at all.

      As far as “Moral Ambiguity”, you’re right about that and you should be on “Team Sophia”! 😀 It’s all well and good to bring morality to the dating game, but you’re going to get trampled by the people that don’t follow the same codes you do. For the record, I think it’s valiant and if everyone adhered to moral expectations, the dating game would be much easier, much more fun and way more productive as far as creating long-lasting relationships instead of cranking out serial monogamists.

      The reason morality has to be bent is that we need to discuss reality, not idealism. If you bring a knife to a gunfight, you lose. No amount of morals are going to get you around the mismatch in firepower.. Those kids in the news clips are filled to the brim with moral justification and perhaps even righteousness, but they’re still throwing rocks at tanks.

      Another important sticking point that you bring up is “the difference between impulse to do, and the act itself”. I agree entirely with what you said, but the flaw is that there’s no INCENTIVE not to hook up with the side chick. None.

      I hear what you’re saying about walking away instead of fighting or lusting after some chick and electing not to hook up with her because of your moral obligation to your girlfriend or wife or whatever, but that’s only valuable to people who subscribe to the same morality you’re describing.

      That’s my whole point, really… If people come to the table expecting everyone else to react to them based on their own personal belief system, they’re easily blindsided when someone does something they couldn’t possibly fathom doing themselves.

      That’s why my advice to women is WAKE UP!!! 😀 Recognize what guys MIGHT do so you’re able to react more quickly and decisively than if you had assumed he was going to be a Mr. Nice Guy if something foul goes down.

  8. Frank,

    It seems like you may have very narrow parameters for how you define cheating.

    Cheated because he had a one night stand.
    Cheated because he had a long/short term affair.

    The timeframe for each is different, however, the assigning of the word cheated, cheater, cheating does not have to neccessarily always correlate with a timeframe, but moreso the act itself. If someone strays, they cheated. Stating that cheating implies a game of some sort means that the dictionary should revise their definition if you are correct.

    –verb (used with object)
    1.
    to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
    2.
    to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
    3.
    to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.
    –verb (used without object)
    4.
    to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.
    5.
    to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
    6.
    to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.
    7.
    Informal . to be sexually unfaithful (often fol. by on ): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife.
    –noun
    8.
    a person who acts dishonestly, deceives, or defrauds: He is a cheat and a liar.
    9.
    a fraud; swindle; deception: The game was a cheat.
    10.
    Law . the fraudulent obtaining of another’s property by a pretense or trick.
    11.
    an impostor: The man who passed as an earl was a cheat.

  9. Frank, after re-reading what I wrote, I was not clear in what I was addressing. I was mainly focusing on the theme of your post:

    “Most women treat each CHEAT as an individual moment in time and not for the running problem that it is”

    ” If i strayed i didnt cheat,”

    I don’t think most woman treat it as a single occurence. Usually questions like “How long has this been going on” gets asked by the woman. My post above expresses my views on the word cheating and how I normally see woman use it, which is different from your post.

  10. Also…..I apologize if my responses seem blunt or abrasive in any manner. I am really rushing my responses while I am at work.

  11. @B.M-no apologies needed. Ive been more abrasive in other postings.

    I fully understand what the dictionary descibes as cheating BUT if you read my original comment it clearly says the word cheat comes with way too much bagage that does more to cloud the situation than anything. If you look clearly at your own postings you will notice that the act of being sexually unfaithful is listed as an INFORMAL use of the word cheat. And you would be surprised how many women have been cheated on 10x over a 40 month period but really believe that they were able to control the majority of the time. NO! I/YOU were an unfaithful, deceitful, not worthy of trust, lying little fuck! Many women say cheat and then believe that its an action they can force us to disown. They saty in the same situation because they belive that they are now in the drivers seat and can see it coming. Uh, NO! Confront me as a cheater and you open up the window by which i can get back in the good graces. Come at me as a self loving, knowing her own worth lady who is about to call me on my behavior and I really have no argument. See me and my personality for what it is and not each individual action that you think you can control1

    AGAIN, i never said these werent legitimate issues in a realtionship/hook up/even friendships, all i said that the word CHEAT is so over used that it dumbs down my actions and their impact on you.

      1. +1 to what Frank said, re: abrasion. Don’t worry about that here. So long as we’re civil towards each other, let’s get our points out on the table however they get there.

        The point that I feel Frank is making is the one that I bring up in “Sex Addiction Therapy & Rehab?”. If you act like there’s something WRONG with a guy that MADE him cheat, you’re helping him explain it away. If you recognize it as a pervasive mindset, there’s no explaining.

        “I screwed that chick because I felt like it. Yes, I remember telling you that I was only going to have sex with you, but your sister was looking rather fat-assed in that miniskirt. \o/”

        That’s the reality of the situation. If you let him claim that he’s a sex addict and there was too much “Temptation” and he needs to be more of a Buddhist or Christian or Jew in order to combat his weakness for ******* chicks that he’s sexually attracted to, you’re letting him slide.

        I think you’re both actually making the same point. The instance indicates the mindset and SHOULD be dealt with as such instead of letting him explain away “this one time that he got caught” when it’s really only the tip of the iceberg and indicates that you may very well not be in the relationship you thought you were in.

    1. Okay, well now I can see you’re just arguing semantics, which is boring. You understand that an agreement between two people shouldn’t be broken, which is not the impression I got from your original post. It felt like being dishonest in your relationship is not “technically” this or “technically” that because of some stupid dictionary definition. I mean, you don’t like the word cheating for some unknown reason. So whatever, make up something like “yazewing” or something and use it with your friends if it really bothers you.

      1. Nothing personal but since your tone is the one that set this up, I could very well add:

        That fact that more than one person has obviosuly missed the point about an instance of cheating and an on going pattern of deception between a female and a male is boring to me. Like my ORIGINAL posting which in which I clearly wrote “…just met him 3 weeks ago, slept with him once and found out that he still had a friends with benefits, hmmmm… you gonna get serious with him? naw he already cheated.” is and was meant to illustrate how that one word is used for a variety of scenerios leading to it losing its impact. One man “cheating” before you are even in a relationship is not the same as finding out that your mate/husband of 20yrs has “cheated”, thats an issue of trust and honesty Also, I made a point of saying *most* and *many* PLUS I also threw in the discalimer “FYI: I said MOST dont want to be bombarded by those who read that as ALL and now want to defend themselves” which was meant for those of you who believe you are the exception not the rule. If you are the exception, then by all means take a bow.
        Now for every once else who belives that because they may be the exception that every other woman out there is also as smart, let me dumb this down: If Im on a diet and eat a twinkie on the 3rd day, I cheated. if I ate a twinkie EVERYDAY and denied it or tried to hide it, Im a LIAR!

        Now if you believe thats just semantics, well look to your left and then your right and you will find a boat load of women who would wish they could go back in time and address a situation from a different perspective. And having said that, if what i wrote is not to your liking than a response wasnt needed because it was actually a little “yazewing”.

        1. Um no, this is me being honest, not setting up a tone or anything. Later I commented on what you said in your original piece with the “victim blaming” asking what you meant by that.

          I don’t comment on points I think are redundant or uninteresting, that’s all I meant to say (which is why I’m not commenting on whatever you wrote now). Sorry if it hurt your feelings saying it was boring, I’m kind of blunt & don’t consider how I come across sometimes.

  12. I don’t know if I will be able to address each point, so I will try to pick out the key points in each post. This would be so much easier if it was a panel discussion.

    Wake up woman (Bill) – Basically this common theme is actually paradoxical. The goal of the post is to show women not to come into these relationships with preconceived notions, to not think that their partner WOULD NEVER CHEAT on THEM, and to essentially not be surprised if cheating occurs. So the idea is to have to develop a counter preconceived notion that there is always the possibility they can be cheated on. Basically the post is encouraging women to always have their guard up, a semi built wall so to speak. From what I have learned, the reason why woman are shocked, hurt, destroyed, caught off guard by a cheating man is because the man has ALREADY EARNED THEIR TRUST. At that point, the guard is already dropped, hence the surprise and shock when their partner no longer meets an ESTABLISHED EXPECTATION.

    Breach of Contract (Bill) – The contract has to be mutually agreed upon for it to be a contract, my point is mainly that these “deal breakers” are preconceived expectations. It really only becomes a breach of contract if the man sits the woman down and says – “Look, we need more intimacy, our love making is lacking. Can you fulfill that need?” Open communication is what dictates the spoken agreements. Any unspoken deal breakers is not grounds for an affair (I know you are not promoting infidelity, I am just not a big fan of the B.O.C. term since it implies justification)

    Tiger Woods Syndrome (Bill) – Excellent point. But can you agree that it was Tiger woods who initiated the B.O.C.?

    Moral Expectations (Bill) – I do not think we really disagreed on this issue but I would like to add usually unless someone is overly religious, the moral expectations are developed over time as the relationship progresses and the bond deepens, so women/men, no matter what, will probably always be blindsided by a cheating man they are in love with unless it was some sort of pattern they were previously aware of.

    Idealism vs. Reality (Bill) – It is not idealism if it becomes based on deduction. It is idealism if you have only been dating for a few months with no real empirical understanding of the situation, but once you reach a certain timeframe you are basically dealing with reality since there is a pattern/routine within the relationship that becomes the norm.

    no incentive NOT TO HOOK UP (Bill) – There are incentives not to hook up – avoid feelings of guilt/shame, avoid risking your reputation, avoid unwanted diseases, unwanted drama. There are tons of incentives for not hook up. It is just when we are blindsided by the bio-chemicals, we sometimes fail to rationalize the situation.

    Bill, overall, I do have to say that even if I do disagree with some of your positional points, you have explained your view point well. I think perhaps we should analyze when the blind sidedness occurs. I believe if the relationship is relatively new, then your points ring the loudest, but if years have already passed, the blind sidedness is inevitable since the guard has already been dropped.

    Frank, I will respond to you in my next post. Thank you for your response.

    1. lolol.. Now, I’m beginning to wonder if you *ARE* Sophia! 😀

      Your first paragraph, I disagree with the first part and agree with the second. The possibility of being cheated on is nowhere near a “counter preconceived notion”. It’s merely a fact. Similarly, it’s going to rain today or it isn’t. If you go outside without an umbrella and it rains, you get wet. If you go with an umbrella and it doesn’t rain, you remain dry but wasted the energy of carrying the umbrella around. No preconceived notions are necessary (although you will argue that watching the weather report creates such notions! :D). Whether or not you get cheated on is up to the individual that you’re dating. There’s nothing preconceived about that. It’s a fact.

      The second part, I agree with and actually find fascinating. Your idea is that a woman has no choice but to be caught off guard because the man has already earned her trust by the time he cheats on her. Assuming she’s a decent judge of character in the first place.. If that’s true, then you’re absolutely right. It wouldn’t make any sense for me to advocate to women to attempt to do the impossible.

      I’ll have to consider my own personal feelings about the subject to explain my point of view in this situation. My version of trusting a woman is that we agreed to meet up at a certain bar at a certain time later today and because I trust her word, I fully expect her to meet me at the designated location at or around the time she said she’d be there. I have no idea about and/or control over what she did before she met up with me and what she’ll do after we part company.

      Let me also say, in continuing, that this also applies to dudes. What I’m talking about here is trusting PEOPLE in general.

      So I would say that my level of trust is a percentage chance, not an absolute. Whatever the parameter is, there’s a percentage chance that the gal will be reliable in that area. The ONLY reason I would trust anyone with ANYTHING actually important is if I’ve personally tested their resolve and found them to be as true as they could possibly be to their word. It’s one thing to SAY you’re going to do something. It’s another thing to actually have the ABILITY to do it and then to actually carry it out.

      Even on that level, I’m honestly a “If you want something done right, do it yourself” kind of person. I wouldn’t be shocked or amazed if something didn’t happen. I’d just recognize that that person failed and it was partially my fault for relying on them in the first place instead of handling my own business.

      This is why I find your second point fascinating and possibly true. I think there definitely comes a time for some MOST people that they trust someone to the point that they consider what that person’s going to do as an ABSOLUTE FACT. I can see why that would be shocking and amazing. I can see why my advice to recognize The Game would be useless to women in a mental state like that.

      People are aghast, for instance, at how that dude could “cheat” on Sandra Bullock with that tattooed skank. People were wondering why Hugh Grant got busted getting a blowjob from a cheap hooker when he was dating Elizabeth Hurley, who EVERYBODY wanted to bang at that time and probably still do. For me, it’s just common sense. At the time, that’s what they wanted to do. They did what they wanted to do. That’s what humans do. It’s called desire fulfillment and/or human nature.

      So, no. I would never trust ANYBODY not to “cheat” on me. All I can tell you is that she’s not gonna cheat on me *TODAY* because I’m not getting up OFF her ass until after midnight. >:D

      I hear what you’re saying on B.O.C. and your reasoning. Personally, I feel like relationships would be more authentic if people were up front about what they’re actually doing with someone. Using your example, a guy should say to a gal as soon as they start seeing each other “Listen.. If you have plans to not sex me, let me know so I can make other arrangements. I’m still down to date you and spend time with you, but business is business. Also, if you could let me know in advance, I’d appreciate that. Good Lookin’ Out, G.”

      That never happens. People swear up and down that they’re going to be faithful to each other. Unfortunately, it’s as much a part of The Game as women getting married in WHITE DRESSES, which is supposed to indicate VIRGINITY and they should actually be getting married wearing BURGUNDY or BLACK. 😀

      Tiger Woods Syndrome – We have no information, but I’m willing to stipulate that I’m 99.9999999% SURE that what happened is *ALL* Tiger Woods’ fault. 😀 I seriously doubt his wife stopped being a frizneak in bed and THEN he ran all over creation with at least 14 chicks. Seeing things from my perspective, which I outlined earlier, there was no reason for him to ever stop hooking up with as many chicks as he wanted to. He never INTENDED to be faithful to his wife. If he hadn’t gotten caught, he’d STILL be hooking up with them.

      Agreed on your “Moral” & “Idealism” additions, based on the second part of your first point. I see how a chick could be “lulled to sleep” by either her man being actually faithful to her for a long time and then cheating OR being good enough to hide it for a long time and then getting caught.

      re: “No incentive not to hook up”, I was attempting to skim over that point so an already super-long comment didn’t get even longer by going off on a tangent. All of your points about that are valid for people that care about stuff like that. What I was saying is more cleared up by the beginning of this comment where I explained the difference between believing in human nature / desire fulfillment and believing in absolute truths based on societal constructs.

      What I was saying was that there’s no reason to commit to one chick AT ALL if you can get chicks without committing. *IF* you’re going to select one, I think it should be because you’re ready to retire and you honestly want to make a go of it with this one gal. Even if you’re a serial monogamist, you should be ALL IN during the time that your attention is focused on one female.

      So the point I was trying to make was that if you have “the impulse to do”, there’s no reason at all why you shouldn’t fulfill your desires with another consenting adult. What you want to do with your life before you croak overrides some agreement that you made that you may never have intended to keep. There’s no guilt involved unless you really INTENDED to remain faithful and failed, or, as I’ve said in other posts, if it has nothing to do with your girlfriend or wife AT ALL and only has to do with your keeping your own word. If you fail in that, you may very well feel like a crumb.

      Having said all that, I’d like to add that the most amazing part of the Tiger Woods thing is that he was willing to take his chances bringing an STD home to his wife, assuming he was still stickin’ that at all between golf tournaments.

  13. Informal Usage (Frank) – Yes, but what the dictionary means by informal is that it is associated with spoken language rather than written language. So it does not diminish the definition of the word at all.

    “Control the majority of the time” “Many women say cheat and then believe it is an action they can force us to disown” (Frank) – So are you saying that women treat cheating like a male attribute that they think they can control/change? I believe that is what you are saying. If so, I would say this may apply to some instances, but not the majority.

    – Scenario A – Some instances would be an example you gave, Alex cheats on Ana 40 times, Ana thinks she can get him to stop. Ana is probably being delusional due to insecurity issues and is willing to believe and forgive rather quickly so she does not end up alone. Then yes, this is beyond the scope of cheating and more synonymous with scum bag adjectives. Here your point holds true in terms of how the word cheat is subjectively manipulated by the victim.

    – Scenario B – Instances where it wouldn’t apply is, a long term relationship, built over time, that was perceived kosher the entire time. So if Alex cheats on Ana this instance, then Ana is not using it as an attribute term. In this scenario, I do not think the parameters of cheating as an attribute applies. In this situation it is an event or a series of event that ties in the entire foundation of the relationship itself. Now once it reaches an excessive amount of times, then the word cheating transforms into how you presented it.

    “Word cheating is overused” (Frank) – I agree and disagree. When you are dealing with Scenario A, I think this point holds true since Ana is missing the point – Alex is essentially scum. However, I do not believe this applies to scenario B, there are just too many variables to consider.

    Frank, excellent response, I can see clearly now where you are coming from.

    Conclusion for Bill and Frank – I guess I am having a hard time seeing it entirely through your eyes because of the experiences I have had in terms of being part of such a diverse social group. I have seen Scenario A, but I have seen Scenario B more. I have also discussed the “idealist” version of Scenario B with those who have a honest, open, and faithful relationship. I guess my biggest concern is, when it comes down to it, I felt this was take away too much accountability from men and placing more responsibility on women.

    1. re: “Accountability” – To quickly reprise what I said in my previous response to this thread, I don’t personally believe in the absoluteness of anyone’s fidelity.

      I see now, between the points that Sophia has made recently and the points you’ve made in this thread that what happens for people is that they actually become TRUE BELIEVERS and drink the Kool-Aid once they reach the point that they trust their significant other absolutely.

      I’m happy that they feel that way and wish them the best in their relationships. Being from NYC, where you can’t leave a $1 bill in the street, much less an attractive chick without someone trying to pick her up, I’ve seen too many people do too much dirt and I’ve done too much myself to believe in absolutes when relying upon human nature.

  14. Bill, again, excellent response.

    I’m going to have to start reading Sophia’s comments since I keep getting compared to her. I only read what the men wrote (was that sexiest of me?).

    I guess what it comes down to is, which I am sure we can both agree – People are different. Social settings and social norms are different. So our understanding combined is probably a pretty accurate assessment of society as a whole. Since Nature + Nature + Variables are all involved.

    Desire fullfillment…I guess you’re not a Buddhist, j/k, since detachment from desire would free ones sufferrring!!!!

    I get what you are saying about the D.F. concept. It seems like the behavior in correlation to incentives is probably more excusable from someone who already has that life-style as oppossed to someone who is in a long term relationship and then decides to give in to some morally questionable impulses.

    Now getting back to your 1st paragraph where you expressed disagreement. What I meant was – You made a point in the post for women to get over the brainwashing, to get over the preconceived notion that things will have a happy ending. My commentary was merely to illustrate that regardless of what mindset one takes going into a relationship, it will still be a preconceived notion, whether it is the mindset you promote or the mindset that is currently brainwashed. If we encourage an awareness of infidelity, then it becomes a notion of possibility for women to be aware of even without evidence that the individual will do it, the Bill meme so to speak. To compare to your example. Rain. I see it like this. Your post is teaching women to go into relationships thinking there is a 40% chance of rain. So it isn’t a fact, but a precaution to encourage preparation. This is noble of you, but it is still my opinion that this becomes a planted meme, a planted notion that exists beforehand without the actual act committed. A “What if” scenario that is essentially a preconceived notion, the Bill meme.

    That is very interesting that you have a % scale associated with how you trust people. Do you trust your best friend 100% (if you have one)?

    1. SUCH a good point, most of what you’re saying, actually. I’m a fan. I have more to add. A lot more. Sorry it’s long:

      “I believe in the basic goodness of human beings myself. I also believe in greed and selfishness. In your realm, it might be called “temptation” and it might be something that people strive to combat. In my realm, it’s called “desire fulfillment” and it’s all that really matters at the end of the day.”

      Um, sorry, you can’t believe in one and the other at the same time. Your first and last sentences are incompatible. If your guard is always up against the possibility that you can be cheated on (thanks BM, and no we’re not the same person), you are incapable of trusting someone. You literally can’t avoid being “blindsided” and also have that optimistic outlook that someone loves you and you have a happy life together. It’s quite obvious that it’s impossible.

      You say that you believe in the basic goodness of human beings yourself, but you don’t. You’ve already said that you never trust anyone with anything important or trust someone not to cheat on you. If you believed that people were good for their word & that they loved you like they said they did, you would trust that they’re going to do what they said they would do.

      You have to be cynical & doubtful & always looking for clues & evidence to the contrary in order to follow the advice on your blog, and that is what people strive to avoid in a relationship. They just want to relax and TRUST that the person is going to do what they say they will.

      And so here lies the rub (and the entire point of your blog): what is the point of telling someone not to believe in love or the fact that it’s a façade that can be easily broken? Do you think ANYONE really wants to live their life that way? People would much rather believe in the fairy tale and have to deal with the consequences later. Who says that living your life in a constant state of fear & anxiety (he was texted late at night, is it another girl? Why was he late coming home from work?) is better? And most of the time, no one wants to be with someone long term who doesn’t trust them, guys or girls, it gets tiring defending yourself all the time. So you end up alone.

      And to be fair, it goes for guys too. I dated a guy who got really good at gaming girls (like you yourself, Bill). And he was constantly testing me, trying to see if I would leave him the second he stopped gaming me. He wanted to relax and be himself. He wanted me to love him for who he was and enjoy our history together enough not to leave him for the next guy who was richer, better looking, or more high status / better at the game. Because it’s IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be the best in every category. There’s always someone better than you. This goes doubly for women, which is why we probably have more invested in believing what people tell us. We know we’re going to get old and then every woman who is younger than us is going to be more attractive to you (our mate). An analogous situation would be for a guy with a great career knowing that slowly he would lose his money and end up penniless. Wouldn’t you be kind of desperate to believe that someone could love you even if you didn’t have that money / career since you would eventually lose it anyway?

      Your advice to women is: “WAKE UP!!! 😀 Recognize what guys MIGHT do so you’re able to react more quickly and decisively than if you had assumed he was going to be a Mr. Nice Guy if something foul goes down.”

      My question is, Why? How does it help being cynical beforehand when something happens? You react more quickly and decisively in moving out / breaking up? I don’t really think that’s possible – once you find out, most people are gone. Who really cares whether you’re suspicious beforehand?

      “For instance…The times that I have declared a chick as “with me” and indicated some kind of consistent devotion to them, I went into that knowing that other guys were going to be coming after my girls…If I adopted the stance of “Life is fair and Humans are good and nobody’s going to kick it to a girl that claims she’s ’spoken for’”, I’d most likely eventually get blindsided by reality…It’s *MY* job to make sure I’m showing her enough of a good time that they can’t trample my game. If they can, more power to them and they can have her…I also would have found it funny if he had actually hooked up with her because that would have just been a different branch of history. One way or the other, the song remains the same…It’s all in The Game.”

      This only works if you’re in it for the short-term. If you actually wanted a wife and kids, you would be MUCH less cool with your boy hooking up with your wife because his game is better. This is the position that most women are coming from: they want a relationship. And like I said, you’re NEVER going to always be the best. You’re going to be off your game sometime when your wife meets some doctor or lawyer who makes a million a year more than you and is funny to boot. And those are the times when you have to rely on the fact that the person meant what they said about loving you.

      Also, a random response to Frank’s comment: “You see it as he strayed 3x and the reality is that you allowed yourself to be lied to for 36 months.”
      If you’re actually serious about this, I’m really starting to dislike you. This is the worst example of victim blaming that I’ve ever seen.

      1. Heeeeeeeeeeeere we go:

        Kid puts his hand on a hot stove several times, am I blaming the victim or am I expecting him to open his/her eyes take responsiblity for his actions?

        If I were balming the victim I’d say, “good had it coming!’ Which at no point is anywhere near what I said.

        If you caught your mate off base on multiple occasions, then YES its YOUR responsibility to WISE up and look at the whole picture. YOU have allowed YOURSELF to be lied to/decieved and if you were a friend or a relative I gave to sticks of cheese about, ID APPROACH YOU IN THE SAME MANNER HOPING THAT YOU OPEN YOUR EYES!!! So like i responded to you in a seperate comment, if you are the exception to the rule, take a bow BUT dont at anytime believe that every other woman out there is that in tune with the game. If that were the case we wouldnt be interacting because “Bills Dating Genius” would be “Bills lessons on Working Out”, there would be no advise to hand out.

        and as for: “Also, a random response to Frank’s comment: “You see it as he strayed 3x and the reality is that you allowed yourself to be lied to for 36 months.”
        If you’re actually serious about this, I’m really starting to dislike you. This is the worst example of victim blaming that I’ve ever seen.”… OH WELL. Having been raised by a single mom and now having a daughter of my own, Id rather they be MAD at me now then be an ACTUAL VICTIM later! I have enough friends who value my honesty to keep me from worrying about being liked or not.

        Victim Blaming is a strong accusation and irresponsible to throw out there as a defense.

        1. I can see your point now. It’s the fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me argument. I could buy that as an explanation for why you wrote someone cheating on you = allowing yourself to be lied to.

          1. Let me say off the bat that this is the craziest, most intelligent debate I’ve had on my site in the entire four years I’ve been writing DatingGenius, and I’m amazed by it and finding it tough to keep up. Kudos to all three of y’all for kickin’ it the way you feel it. 😀

            Second, I’d like to say that since Sophia & BM claim to be different people, y’all should probably date each other.

            Now….. >:D

            @Sophia: re: “Um, sorry, you can’t believe in one and the other at the same time”.. Apparently, you never read THE BIBLE! 😀

            One of the first stories in the bible is about this guy and gal named… ADAM AND EVE!!! 😀

            Adam and Eve were two people that were doing the right thing…… UNTIL THEY DIDN’T! hahaha They were all about The Basic Goodness Of Human Beings until they failed. I absolutely believe in that Basic Goodness. I also believe that most people are gullible idiots that can be manipulated into doing things they didn’t intend to do, either by circumstances that arise or by other people that intend to corrupt them.

            Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. I believe completely that there are people that are good in their hearts and strive to do right by all humankind and animals as well and would rather knit baskets than go to war. I also believe that those people aren’t mentally strong enough to guarantee their own behavior.

            When I say I don’t trust anyone, I don’t mean that I don’t trust what they told me. I mean that I don’t trust their ABILITY to stand up to their word. When I say that I only know what a chick’s doing while I’m on top of her, that’s an absolute fact. I don’t know if she’s calling up the next man right after we part company and I don’t know if the next man put her in a cab to come meet me before we hooked up. There’s nothing depressing about that. It’s just a fact.

            Think about your sister if you have one. If she’s not in the room with you right now as you’re reading this, you don’t have the slightest clue what she’s doing. She could be in church saying Hail Marys or she could be hoing on the corner for a pimp. You have no idea because she’s outside the reach of your senses.

            I agree with your concept that people would RATHER believe in the fairytale. I even believe that most people get away with this belief because they act like everything was cool until they catch their SO (which I’m not saying is definitely going to happen. There are lots of people that are sincere about relationships and are faithful and DEVOTED to their SOs, whether they marry them or not).

            Look at Tiger Woods’ wife. She found out that something was ‘wrong’ when he got busted texting with some chick on like Thanksgiving or some off-limits time when you’re not supposed to be interacting with your Goomahs at all. What we all found out after that is that he had several girls for several years. What difference did that make to his wife? None. So long as she didn’t catch any STDs from him running all over creation and he didn’t leave his family for a waitress or porno chick, there was nothing different about her life at all WHILE SHE PERCEIVED that her husband was being faithful to her.

            So, Yes.. I know there are tons of people that live the fantasy and have a good time with it. I also know that there are lots of people that get caught out there when they realize they didn’t have the control they thought they had over someone else. Of course they didn’t have control, because Human Nature trumps everything. You can’t call Morals into play because everyone doesn’t subscribe to the same set of morals. You can’t call society into play because lots of people remain within the boundaries of society so they won’t become pariahs. They don’t actually BELIEVE in the constructs they’re swearing to at all. They can agree in front of their SO, God, and everyone in the church that they’re going to be faithful blah blah blah and then hit the strip club as soon as they get back from the honeymoon. \o/

            I think the difference in our opinions is rather basic. What I’m saying is that if you’re trying to hit a baseball and according to you, the pitcher is ONLY going to throw curveballs, you’re going to get caught out there every time a fastball or a slider comes over the plate. If, instead, you UNDERSTAND THE GAME and know that the pitcher MIGHT throw any of the three, that’s not a depressing situation. That puts you in the right frame of mind to recognize what *might* happen and make intelligent informed decisions.

            “If you actually wanted a wife and kids, you would be MUCH less cool with your boy hooking up with your wife because his game is better.”

            That sounds correct on paper, but it’s just not true.

            The *ONLY* reason you get to keep a chick is because you offered her what she wanted and she devoted herself to you. You don’t get to keep her because you call her your girlfriend. You don’t get to keep her because you marry her. You get to keep her because day in and day out, she wants to spend time with YOU and hook up with YOU. As soon as she doesn’t feel that way, she might “cheat” on you or step off entirely and leave you for the next man.

            Therefore, there is NO. REASON. ON. THIS. PLANET. that a dude should be able to pull a chick offa me because if my goal is to keep her, my goal is to satisfy her and I’m going to do my damnedest to accomplish that. If I fail, I fail. Back to the drawing board. Get some more skillz. Learn some new techniques. Change some things you could have done better.

            This isn’t IOWA, where you marry Betty Sue and she tends to the children and has no other options for male companionship than you so you get to rest on your laurels and get fat and lazy and unattentive and still get to keep your woman. **** that. Keeping a chick is just as much work, if not MORE WORK than pulling her in the first place. Keep your game tight and do what you can because if your woman’s still in shape, the enemies are at the gates.

        2. Also, just so you know, this is when I’m actually upset at a comment as opposed to just making a commentary like before. I usually say so with something like above: “I’m really starting to dislike you” or “I don’t like what you said here.” It’s not usually very hard to figure out. Other times (like when I was talking about “yazewing”), I’m probably abrasive without meaning to be, but it honestly was meant in a neutral way.

          1. No need to explain. When i was typing i was actually smirking but that doesnt come through in what you can see. we all share our opinions and we are all entitled to do so! If I would have really been offended i would have asked Bill what you relationshipto him was so that I can then decide how to respond. I’ve left comments that sound abrasive that werent meant to be. No biggie. I was just trying to point out that the direction I went in was actually in the original when i mentioned the cheating in an undifined relationship. I got 2 responses that seemed to have ignored that caveat. when I ended with “yazewing” i was just using your word to sign off (and probably to get a rise out of you) but not to seem like i had been upset.

            1. Yeah, I actually didn’t read that part bc I still think the cheating definition or use of the word is not worth arguing over — I just read the first part, saw you were upset (I know you’re a longtime commenter here), and wanted to appease you before my flippant commenting style started some kind of fight. That’s all.

              1. Don’t sweat “fights”, Sophia, haha.. So long as we’re being civil towards each other, let’s be efficient in getting our points across, whether that comes off as abrasive or not.

                I *do* know Frank IRL. That means that we have behind the scenes conversations about these threads. If you haven’t listened to Street Game, that’s us kickin’ it live. That CERTAINLY DOES NOT mean that you, BM or anyone else that comments here are second-class citizens. I appreciate everyone’s comments and I’m learning things from even this discussion we’re having right here.

                If you’ve got it, *bring* it. 😀

                1. Yeah, What he said!!
                  Too bad we all arent from the NYC (or maybe we are, who knows) but this would have been an interesting IRL convo over a few beers and chips!!!

  15. Sophia,

    To be fair to Bill, I believe his point about believing in fairy-tales is valid. When someone goes into something with excessively high expectations, the impact of failure is magnified to the point that it can cause a total destruction of ones persona. Bill is encouraging one to be aware of the possibility, now I am not saying I agree with the direction and the post Bill presented, but one should always be aware of the possibility of failure when going into something. That is what he has termed reality. Which is accurate in that sense, but not accurate once there are established expectations based off experience within the parameters of the relationship. I.E. Going into a relationship thinking this is your knight in shining armor is drastically different than the partner eventually earning this title after time.

    Frank & Sophia and the word cheating or yazewing.

    Sophia is right, (IMO), I think you and I really got off on a tangent in how we define cheating. And we basically pulled ourselves away from the heart of Bill’s post. I totally understand what you mean Frank, the word cheated gets used so often and so loosely that the parameters of definition become vague and expanded. I can see where it does not apply, and I am hoping you can see where it does apply. So I do not think we should strike the word “CHEATING” from our vocabulary as you initially proposed, perhaps we can just define it better and use it more accurately.

    To all,

    I do sense some tension in the back and forth commentary. For the most point, I do think each POV makes valid points. Perhaps when this is all over we can all agree on some sort of unified POV.

    1. Being aware of the possibility only works when you’re working on deciding whether the person is the right one for you, and in that case, all of Bill’s advice is totally right: be vigilant, keep your eyes open, etc. But once you’re in a relationship, being “aware of the possibility” isn’t something that works if you actually plan on loving someone because of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It goes:

      1. Physiological needs (food shelter drink rest)
      2. Safety needs (protection from danger, psychological security)
      3. Community needs (want to be part of a group, give & receive affection)
      4. Ego needs (achievement, self esteem, confidence, respect, status)
      5. Self-actualization (some bullshit people debate, but basically we have achieved what we consider to be our very best)

      Notice that the feelings of safety (I am okay with this person and they are not going to hurt me) are MORE important & have to be fulfilled first before than community needs (the actual love part & feeling of belonging) come into play. Trust has to be established first before love can develop. It’s just how humans work. You can’t “kind of” love someone without trusting them, because that by definition isn’t love. It’s not even real friendship (which falls into the community segment) — more like just a fondness & sex probably.

      1. I have no disagreement with this, hence my initial statement in regards to me not fully agreeing with the direction of the original post by Bill.

        In actuallity, your current post is in agreement with me as well, since we both acknowledge a difference from the start of a relationship and to the point of where a relationship already developed established expectations.

        My only disagreement with you was when you presented the impression in a previous post that it is ok to believe in fairy tales. I prefer the belief in fairy tales to exist once someone has established a bond with a partner, not during the dating process. I.E. Don’t label someone as a knight in shining armor until they earn that title. Another pitful in faiy tales that start at the beginning is we begin to fall in love with an idea and may lose sight in truly knowing what we are getting ourselves into.

        1. Sure, but what I meant by “fairy tale” was not that Joe from the bar whom you barely know is prince charming, but that a guy you’re already in a relationship with is going to treat you well, like from a fairy tale (as he should). My point is that there’s absolutely no point to go looking for clues of infidelity etc, because you’re already “all in” with your trust as you could say, and you’re not going to be inclined to do so anyway.

          1. My apologies then for misunderstanding.

            Yes, we agree, the “guard up” mentality or as Bill puts it, the “lulled to sleep” mentality would prevent one from being in a constant state of awareness regarding infidelity, hence the shock and devasting pain felt by someone who is “all in”.

  16. Basically what Frank is saying in his follow up response @5-12-10, 9.43am coincides with the old saying “You have brought this upon yourself”.

    I believe that is the point he is trying to illustrate, that there are certain scenarios where the victim really can’t be considered a victim anymore.

    If this is correct, I agree, scenarios like this exist.

    We should also keep in mind, that if the cheater has totally crushed the victim to the point where their self esteem becomes non-existent, then it would really be hard to place any form of responsibility on the victim. E.G. Kid with down syndrome keeps placing his hand on the stove, do we blame the kid for not being responsible and adapting or do we blame the parents (i.e the cheater)

    1. Yup, I got this now. It’s the multiple cheating thing. I maintain though that it’s impossible to “see it coming” the first time it happens if there has been a baseline of trust & history established (and what would be the point of being cynical and constantly looking for it in the first place — that kind of attitude would probably encourage it to happen if it weren’t before IMO).

  17. Addressing BM’s question about whether I trust my “best friend” 100% or not.. I have several people who are over the threshold of 100% trust. This is because (and I’m sure this fits into the theory you brought to this thread from the beginning) they have been PROVEN to be trustworthy. It’s not my OPINION that they’re trustworthy. Things have happened and they’ve proven themselves, so I have no doubt at all that I can trust them with anything and everything, including my life.

    That does not ensure the outcome I desire from a situation.

    Anytime you depend on someone else to do something for you, you’re adding their set of parameters and variables to the equation. There might be a very good reason that that person lets you down. I’m not saying they CHOOSE to deliberately and maliciously. It’s merely a fact that if you decide to do something, you’re aware of whether you did it or not, because you’re you. If you delegate that to someone else, there is a percentage chance that you’re not going to get what you expected.

    This is why so many women have kids after their so-called lover told them he was going to pull out before he came. Didn’t happen. The kid DID happen. \o/

  18. Too all,

    Are there any points directed at me that I have not responded to? I do not want anyone to think I side stepped or ignored any of the points they may have brought up, it’s just, as Bill pointed out, it is tough to keep up.

    For the most part, I see there are areas where we disagree and areas where we agree. Which is expected, and that is usually how good debates/discussions finish.

  19. Wow what a discussion.

    Reading all these comments i have come to realize that cheating and the definition there of is solely determined from the victims perspective.

    Lets say your out with a female on a date or just kicking it etc, and you see another attractive (more attractive?!) female and you look @ her
    (for more than 10 seconds) is that cheating? what if you were @ a bar and the person you were with went to the bathroom and you started talking to somebody else and end up getting contact info is that cheating if you dont plan to contact that person unless you part ways for good with your current date??

    1. Agreed. Amazing and interesting contributions to this discussion, across the board.

      My main takeaway from this is the concept of a changeover. A point that is achieved over time and interaction in a relationship beyond which one’s significant other is considered to be “locked in” as far as trust. Basically, they treat the other person’s ability to make decisions and the choices they make as the same thing as if THEY THEMSELVES had made the choice.

      What you’re talking about falls before that range, because it’s still in the building-up process. It’s not at the “I trust this person and don’t believe they’d ______” stage yet.

      Once you pass that stage where you trust the other person that much, my advice to be aware that anything could happen at any time because we’re talking about Human Beings who have Freedom Of Choice becomes as useless as telling that person not to trust themselves. They’re treating their SO as an extension of themselves, which is why people say “We’re Pregnant”, which is clearly impossible. The female is pregnant. the male is not. If he dies, the female can still have the kid. If she dies, it’s all over. There’s no “We” in “Pregnant”. It’s *SHE’S* Pregnant.

      So what I consider to be common sense and “reality” goes out the window under these circumstances. I have no advice for people who drank the Kool-Aid. Just about everybody died at Jonestown and Waco, Texas too.

      1. But the point im trying to make is where is the line & who draws it? some people (both male and female) will say that watching porn is cheating if your in a serious relation ship conversely some will say that making porn with somebody other than you S.O is not cheating cuz its all bizness.

        1. U answered that best in your own original question “…cheating and the definition there of is solely determined from the victims perspective…”

          Some people (both men and women) will call out “cheat” at the slightest hint that they are not the only ones, even if you’ve only known the other person a limited time. peoples line usually gets established when they are on the wrong side of it.

  20. C-JAY,

    When it comes down to it, the victim and the accused both draw the line of what is defined as cheating. It is so subjective.

    The dictionary presents a narrow-minded definition. It labels cheating as “sexually unfaithful”. We all know you can cheat without having sex. The bottom line is, the parameters are vague, and as Frank and I were going back and forth earlier – the word is so loosly used now that there will probably not be a universal collective agreement on what falls under cheating. So the line is drawn on a case by case basis.

    Here is an example, it is absurd but nevertheless here it goes. I know a pair of swingers. They bang other people. However, if one develops an emotional attachment to someone else, that is what they label as cheating. Emotional infidelity.

    So again, the parameters probably need to be set with the parties involved, if not, then you really can’t get a clear cut definition or a clear line drawn unless you defer to the dicitionary’s narrow minded definition.

  21. Bill, Sophia, C-Jay, B.M. and Frank- I’m weaving together the advice I have found most helpful from everything presented on this thread. For clarity.
    This post began with “Men cheat on women they’re in relationships with because their desire to enjoy their lives is greater than their interest in upholding their word to you.”
    This is the thesis statement. Various interpretations were submitted to help clarify cheating, which became an exercise in semantics, as Sophia pointed out.
    Women could probably have better deeper relationships if they understood The Game and the Terrain. And what has inspired Bill to write Dating Genius for four years. Awakening sleeping women ZZZZZZZZZZZZ is funded by empathy. We are
    framing the questions to find the ineffable answers. Making stabs based on observation. Scientific method. With some willingness to look at the truth, and practice seeing openly without becoming paranoid one might be better off, happier, more in touch with the truth and the deeper meaning inherent in each relationship we have.
    All Day Long.

    Which could be a brief nod on the street or making eye contact with the elevator operator.
    But its girls and boys women and men we are discussing.
    Personally, negotiating the landscape of staying open and “believing” while noticing discrepancies societally and in the relationship, has been formative. The dissonance of not doing that must be louder than the blabbering women. They probably blabber so they won’t hear the discordant clanging future they don’t want to see.
    The unstoppable drive for women IS to create and fuel the prettiest possible path and outcome. For herself and her man. To love fiercely and believe. And at those moments there is only belief like a fire, a passion.
    I have known a handful of women not from my Deep Gothic South who could, cordially, square hipped and with monotone voice, defend their logic in choosing a life of temperance, placing parameters on their emotional buy in to love. They subscribed to an arms crossed over waist firm decision to never fall hard, to never let their guard down.
    Those women scared me. They scared me badly for all I knew was that what would happen to me would always be about the Man in my Life. And our relationship, together.
    Even towards the end of that frenetic period of seeking solace and creating one’s own intimate magical community with S. O. I could still be dazzled silly.
    When I fall instantaneously into a hypnotic adoration I am the happiest. At the zenith of that experience IT becomes my entire world. I see light coming off of my man’s face in bed at night, creating a holy glow. I think he has a special, rare goodness and that I couldn’t’ take them to India because he’d stop traffic. Everyone would lay down in the street to worship, thinking he was a saint! Is that your husband with God on his face and Light in his eyes, they would say.
    Most of the time these men are the worst kind. I’ve tried so hard to work out how my finely tuned honing device could be so warped when it comes to men. I’ve even wondered if I was such an empath that I felt the drugs in their system which they protested weren’t there! I just feel warm and fuzzy 24/7 and it is the best high to fall in love head over heels.

    My “wrong” judgment about men has been perfect. I have seen, experienced, grown in my understanding, yet remained totally unflinchingly porous. Ever ready to believe again but a little more savvy each time.
    I hope for women to succeed at achieving a juicy rich life with a mate. I hope that they love hard and true and strong and fight sometimes and make love all the time and build up each other as “one.” The “we’re pregnant” syndrome Bill mentioned. And when they are heartbroken and dashed, I hope they don’t get in that hell realm of stuckness over it. It is terrible to witness and almost impossible to cure. A lifelong sentence of bitterness and forlornness, aloof as an Ice Queen is often the misfortune which follows, AND often framed as someone else’s fault. Most often,the fault is ascribed to the man who Cheated.
    I had few cairn stones to guide me on my trek and life journey with men. I think it is important to discuss this, from an education POV. Here. ON other sites and feeds. This paradox is being examined, facets admired and critiqued for their perfect glint as well as chips, the whole. It is being named,not to denigrate men or women, their behavior or choices, but rather to bring some level of enlightenment and honesty to the forefront. It is birthed by a desire to offer a solution to a problem for which the pressure seems to be building to the tipping point. There is a problem to solve.

    Many of us truly wish to help because of something we feel in our hearts and can explain so others better understand the Terrain. Supposedly Pasteur gave up his life long position on his death bed admitting to his debate partner and peer,”It’s the terrain.”(Not just the isolated critter in our blood.)
    So call it whatever you like, name a bacterium in a terrain, or a man’s variety of cheating in The Game.
    Women want to, more than the Maslow chart reveals, in my opinion, love a man and love him with everything we’ve got. Same way Bill said he wouldn’t’ feel any worse if a friend seduced his wife than if it were his girlfriend. The responsibility is on HIM to keep her in that zone of gushy magic making startlingly powerful excellent lovemaking. Lives soar. Dreams are created. It is a hypnotic, a stimulant, an unctuous emollient.
    We want that. Everybody knows it. Advertisers promising that get us to vote with our pocket books.
    Bill isn’t trying to take away That. He is whacking the pinata to see what enlightenment will fall out, in a fresh, modern, non attached to whether the advice is taken or not fashion.
    Bill explains that it helps him like therapy to explain and explore the terrain from the stories. He is perplexed and saddened by women talking crazy shift about how perfect their marriages, homes, plans, kids are, seeing it go down in the future, where they are going to be so desperately maybe suicidally upset. And it will happen again and again and again until women wake up. They can keep their passion and impetus to please and make mutual happiness and beauty and win! yet understand to take the pulse, objectively, on occasion, about what could happen.

    I always called it “Perceived end of relationship pain.” I’d allow it, the other door of the two door system to open, which revealed cold icy aloneness instead of the arbor door which swung open to sweet green grassy paths and a happy future together.

    I might do it when little things happened, go to the perceived end of relationship pain place. For my own good.
    When your hurt leads you to consider that it might not work out, that is a good thing. And hearing other’s pov helps gather information, reality ammo, for those times.

    Allowing realities to bubble to the surface takes bravery. Throwing away concepts of ownership.
    I think that is the warrior spirit Bill says that must be brought to the table. Awareness teamed with action. If you want it, if you really want it, arm yourself with knowledge and be vigilant and alive! NO ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.
    Fairy tale busting as intent, was a charge in one comment. Sophia expressed concern that women who took this advice would risk unnecessarily shutting down their natural ability to have hope and faith in a relationship.
    I think if they shut down because of these posts rather than from the deconstruction of their own personal exquisite pain in relationship they are too easily led to understand it fully anyway.

    I’ve long been an advocate of high school classes to replace home ec, about choices young women will face, and the difference between what your church and families tell you to do when you grow up and how your life will actually go.
    Informed.
    Women could become informed through a grass roots movement. An education based offering, like Google creating a new paradigm and giving us free information assistance.
    My intent is pretty much the same as Bill’s. Free information.It helps me integrate my many relationships and those I’ve seen go down with friends, relatives, co workers. I like explaining how that filters through my consciousness in order to most clearly express the terrain, and to learn to use what has happened to determine what might happen to you. In the future. In a relationship.

    We need actuarial tables. Bill mentioned the rate was steady at 50/50, a one in two chance for success as planned. A new MMPP might be created to inform one what category they are in and if they can be faithful and committed or not, man or woman. A galvanic skin test to tell you what you are most likely to do when situations present themselves would be helpful.

    I’m not selling a new therapy like Laura Burman on Joy Behar right now. I’m advocating for education to increase awareness. I’m nodding to the elevator man, engaging, but with social networking which takes our reach to a new level of geometric increase.
    Bill offered advice which can set women free. They wouldn’t have to lose any degree of being fully woman in a full blown relationship with the best man on earth. They’d just be smarter. It reminds me of the early shifts in education, ending the strong hold of Creationism.
    People were pretty comfortable believing the Bible story from Genesis about God’s time line for making the Earth and all of its inhabitants, when they first heard Walter Cronkite mention carbon dating and evolution. The Leakey’s were finding Lucy and the parallel concept slipped in. Facts pointed to billions of years of evolution and phylums, genus and species all in flow charts developing through natural selection, from each other. Most people you meet know evolution is a fact. Except maybe in Arkansas.
    But they still might also hold baby bible artwork images in their memories, depicting Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and an Old Testament God . You might not be able to push them to explain how they can exist with such an outdated understanding because the images might be too deep to dredge up to discuss and integrate, with ease.
    Conflicts are more often than not, deeply submerged.
    Will people benefit from incorporating new facts, like beginning to believe in carbon dating ,to change their view of the way it really is? Yes.

    To answer Sophia’s poignant questions, about why does this mean thing happen, why do bad men prey on and corrupt nice girls with kind delicate hearts?.
    It happens, Sophia, because many men are adept at getting what they want. What they think they need to be happy. Supply. A pretty sweet girl who is crazily in love with them and organizes their life and pays bills and cooks dinner, runs errands, looks great on his arm and believes him completely is the most desirable. If she’s making all or most of the money she is The most desirable. Men look for supply. Women look for a man to believe in and share a life with. And don’t forget the inverse relationship between desirability and attainability. If he is her dream come true, someone she practically idolizes, great looking rich respected lots of mover and shaker friends and stimulation and an expense account for her..isn’t she looking for supply as well? She would be most intent on getting that type of man, because he is close to unattainable; she finds him to be so cool and sexy and funny and handsome and strong. And she wants his total devotion.
    She is fixated because the stimulus of desirability is so strong. She’s going for this one and she is going to make it work. If he needs something she is going to try her best to get it or make it happen for him. They are, in her eyes, a team. When time goes by and she realizes less and less of her core needs are met and that he probably doesn’t give a shit about her and did use her as supply…she is sad. She becomes determined to bust him, catch him cheating or simply misrepresenting his real level of commitment, and she pins him down to help her figure out where this is going and what to do. Can anything get us back to the happy spot or was it all basically the lies men tell…so they can get their supply, she asks women friends.
    Bill said “lots of people are cool with lying and utilize it to great effect in their lives.
    Sophia tidied up with “It’s good to know how and why that happens so Thanks Bill.”
    I’ve lifted sentences from this stream which sound, to me, like excellent tenets for a much needed education of girls and women:

    “Lot of times, however, a guy hooks up with a chick because he likes screwing her, and whatever other fringe benefits come along with spending time with her” BC

    It is your responsibility to wise up and look at the whole picture.”BC

    “I know there are tons of people that live the fantasy and have a good time with it. I also know that there are lots of people that get caught out there when they realize they didn’t have the control that they thought they had over someone else.” BC

    Human nature trumps everything…you can’t call society into play because lots of people remain in the boundaries so they won’t become pariahs. They don’t actually believe in the constructs they are swearing to at all. “BC

    B.M said “don’t label someone as a knight in shining armor until they earn that title.”

    I say I’ve known some knaves seeking supply who were able to dazzle me into naturally hallucinating the shiny armored knight…at hello!

    The illusion of ownership is a major factor in relationships.Guys need to say it and women need to believe it” BC

    Let’s educate to eradicate the silly idea of sex boycott as being effective in eliciting any control. “If he doesn’t take out the trash or come to your Mother’s house for Sunday dinner you can hurt him via Sex Boycott.” BC says, tongue in cheek.

    “It’s actually incredibly arrogant and perhaps delusional to believe that someone wasn’t having sex at all and then when they met YOU….” BC

    We still have no posts from a happily married man explaining what drew him to his wife and what makes their relationship tick.

    “If I adopted the stance of “Life is fair and Humans are good and nobody’s going to kick it to (paraphrase, my SO) who claims they are spoken for, I’d most likely eventually get blindsided by reality.” BC

    “If you don’t understand what the game is it’s flying bind and potluck whether you end up with something good or not. I think it is best to recognize the game for what it is and come to the table prepared to do battle if you have to, even though you hope you can avoid that, meet someone that’s as into you as you’re into them” BC

    And Sophia said “People would much rather believe in the fairy tale, and have to deal with the consequences later.”
    You are so right, Sophia, and I would like to forge ahead and get to the bottom of that fear based way of life. Why do they choose to remain immured in ignorance????
    BTW Laura Burman is on Joy Behar with a “make the connection” campaign for women who have an ebb in their sex lives. “A lack of sexual desire can be a medical condition.” These are actual quotes. Her site http://www.sexbrainbody.com addresses hypoactive sexual desire disorder, “not just being sick of your husband and having too much laundry to do.”
    Her counterpart on this show took pole dancing class and explored porn because she wanted to feel sexy again.
    Emotional, relationship and medical! situational low desire is yet. another. category. Trumps Tiger Woods sex addiction therapy. A little pill, now to make a woman desire sex so her husband won’t leave her.
    They are pitching a medical cure to hating your spouse and your life. HaHaHa AstraZeneca and all of those Basel Switzerland based pharmaceutical conglomerates are ahead of us on this one. They’ll be selling a mental viagra pill and jaded wives will want to ****. Problem solved. Woman can take a pill, coo about really liking the sex, and insure that their credit cards are paid off every month by their husbands and they get their faces waxed, botox and spa teatments and can be rampant consumers because they can once again appear to enjoy sex… with him.
    “if you shut down to sex,what do you think he’s going to do.” Laura says. She got that right. Maybe she’s been tapping in to Dating Genius advice!
    When people meet with this therapist she’s going to stop all sex right away, she says, in order to look for the medical issues that could stand in the way. I’ll bet their pills do work if they make you hold off for a while first!
    “What if you have no interest and feel empty inside and the thought of sex with your man makes you physically ill, someone on the panel asked.
    Is it because he is a jerk and not helping you and has gained forty pounds? the sex pundit interjected.
    Wrap. “If you aren’t interested and you have to be to maintain the relationship
    it might indeed be something physical. Sexual aversion disorder!!!
    We give you ways to talk to your doctor about it., they say, knowingly.
    The pharmaceutical industry was on this before Elin even took off her ring off.
    There is no pill which is going to fix what is wrong between a couple unless ED is the only issue.
    But at least this is a timely subject topic allowing a breath of fresh air from many points of light into a stale belief system fraught with taboos and unrealistic expectation.
    Thank you all.
    Christine

    1. Well-Written, Christine. 🙂 Great way to start my morning. 🙂

      To be fair, my blog isn’t solely about attempting to help women see more clearly, love more dearly & follow more nearly (day by day). I like to post material beneficial to women to balance the articles that I write that are beneficial to men. I didn’t want to have a site that was strictly geared towards offence (getting on), but rather also discussing defense against the very tactics *I* and others have used extremely effectively for years.

      I know that I can tell a gal “I love you and I want us to be together” and she’ll ******* FALL FOR IT! Hook? Meet Line & Sinker. I also know what it looks like and feels like when you inform her you’re not into y’all’s situation anymore and you’re going to do something else or you want to roll your relationship back to friendship. It’s really pretty devastating, which is why I haven’t engaged in it for years. I don’t hand out titles. I hang out with women and if they happen to get something physical out of that, it’s their lucky day. I’m not involved in the “Tell her whatever bullshit to get her to lay down” sweepstakes.

      With all this discussion, I had forgotten that it all started out with “Men cheat on women they’re in relationships with because their desire to enjoy their lives is greater than their interest in upholding their word to you.”, so thank you for bringing that back to the forefront.

      My addition to that statement, based on our debate, is that guys are going to do whatever we have to do to put you under. The more you believe in us, the more we can live the lives we envisioned and ultimately desire. If there’s a point where we become trusted to the point that we can screw 14 chicks behind your back and you’ll blind yourself to that possibility because that concept doesn’t have a place in your world view, that’s where we want to go. That’s who we want to be. You stay in your position and remain useful while we live the lives we always intended, doing whatever we want to do whenever we want to do it.

      As far as the “Team” concept, I think that’s best illustrated by the scene in the movie “Boiler Room” where Nicky Katt says to Giovani Ribisi “YOU’RE ON *MY* TEAM!.. I’M NOT ON YOURS!!!”. I think a lot of women are oblivious to the “Supply” nature of their usefulness to a guy and they’re thinking that he’s thinking exactly what they’re thinking as far as “Someone to believe in and share a life with”.

      Having said that.. Definitely, there are LOTS OF GUYS looking for ONE woman. There are lots of guys looking for someone to be devoted to. There are lots of guys that actually mean it when they claim at the wedding that they’re not going to hook up with any other chicks ever again until they croak. I’m not dissing the fairytale. I’m A FAN of the fairytale. Stereotypes exist for a reason. There’s always *SOME* truth behind them. I wish everyone could find one person that floated their boat and the two of them would hook up and live happily ever after. Seriously, haha I’m not kidding. 😀

      The reason why people “Choose to remain immured in ignorance” is that it feels good… until it doesn’t. You can either have 364 days of THIS IS THE GREATEST RELATIONSHIP EVER!!! 😀 and then one day of WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???? 🙁 or you can have 365 days of “Today was great! I *HOPE* tomorrow will be just as great with this same person! :D”.

      I have it happen to me all the time, because I meet new girls every single week. I always go through a phase with new chicks where I’m like “THIS GIRL IS SO FANTASTIC!!! 😀 WHAT IF I BECOME OBSESSED WITH HER AND SHE BECOMES MY NEXT GIRLFRIEND??? :D” haha It’s a wonderful feeling. I understand why people are addicted to it and strive to “give their hearts away”.

      All I’m saying is that I’ve *BEEN* that dude that stays quiet at 7am while the chick’s on the phone with her man, explaining away why she didn’t pick up the phone last night and why she’s going to be out of commission this morning and afternoon also. I’ve met those dudes that I’ve ****** with their woman and looked them in the eye and shook their hands like I never hooked up with her and have no intimate relationship to her at all. I’ve watched people be obliviously happy in relationships while their SO screwed whomever they wanted behind their backs. “Happy” is “Happy”. Perception is Reality.

      As far as “A lack of sexual desire can be a medical condition.”, A lack of sexual desire can be that you’re not dating a sexually attractive male. Or maybe you WERE, and he’s not now. That could be because of his current physical condition or his lack of affection/attention that he applied in bagging you. Women refuse to take into account that they hook up with HERBS for financial stability or because they believe this particular guy will never cheat on them. That’s all well & good until you meet a guy that you REALLY feel like having sex with… (lol, Which I see you addressed in the following statements after I wrote this and went back to reading your post) 😀

      lol, Laura’s not following DG advice, she’s following common sense! 😀 If you buy a stove and it stops heating up, do you eat cold food or just get a new stove? \o/

      Ultimately, as far as the general topic, I’m not trying to explain “cheating” away or deflect the responsibility from a guy that gave his word to a woman that he was going to be faithful to her. If he went back on his word, he’s a crumb. Period.

      Are there some guys that would feel guilty hooking up with a chick when they’re already “committed” to another one? Yes. Are there some guys that would RATHER be with just one girl instead of being involved in the dating game? DEFINITELY! 😀

      It’s clear to me now that there are lots of people that expect a verbal or written agreement to override human nature. I don’t subscribe to that, personally. I believe in the overall goodness of people, out the box. Kids aren’t born prejudiced, for instance, you have to TEACH them that. You have to teach them that this person is different from you because XYZ and because of that, you should treat them differently. As we progress in our lives, we have experiences and collect baggage that comes with us to the next relationship.

      That’s how life works. As the responses stated to C-Jay’s branch of the thread, a good relationship is determined by the two people involved. Period. If they can’t agree, maybe they shouldn’t stay together.

      My position is that people remain in relationships because BOTH PEOPLE wake up each day and ELECT to be in that relationship on that particular day. If a guy feels like getting some on the side and coming back home to his steady girlfriend, it will affect her life when she becomes aware of it. Until that time, ignorance is bliss.

      I’m totally a FAN of relationships. I’m very happy for people that are head over heels in love with each other. The difference is that I’m a fan of relationships built on educated decisions by people that went into the situation with their eyes wide open instead of relationships built on “All I know is I’m in love with this person and that’s all that matters!”.

  22. Bill,
    How about Bob Marley’s Natural Mystic instead of Day by Day:
    “One and all have to face reality now.
    ‘Though I’ve tried to find the answer to all the questions they ask.
    ‘Though I know it’s impossible to go livin’ through the past –
    Don’t tell no lie.”

    I’m glad we are continuing to bring into focus…Why Men Cheat and all of the ramifications and nuance. It has been tiptoed around and the edges blurred for centuries because, as you pointed out with examples from your own life, some women find the truth too painful and it can be devastating. Plus, guys are happy that shielded truth is still such an effective ploy!
    You brought up basic goodness and that
    “You have to teach them that this person is different from you because XYZ and because of that, you should treat them differently.” That statement, I believe, was about children learning to be prejudiced against XYZ. I think women are inculcated to become prejudiced in favor of men. Some of us were taught that they are different from us and we should treat them differently, i.e., we should view them with blinders on. (Blinders are leather extensions from a halter which obscure a horse’s peripheral vision so it keeps moving forward regardless of what is going on around it.)
    I’ve known women who were able to be perfectly honest with their partners about everything from desiring other men to how pissed off they were about the garbage not being taken out. Some held meetings to air out thoughts and feelings every couple of weeks. And brought notes with tally marks. Women I’ve shared these stories with expressed some squeamishness about dealing with a SO like that, as if it were too harsh or brutal, even unfeminine.
    Other women I know have spent over 30 years being faithful to a man they married fresh out of college, and many of them rarely express anything which could be construed as criticism or as asking for more. This, I think, is due to early education; corralling and keeping a man for security is the goal. Don’t rock the boat.
    If honesty and fairy tale feelings could co-exist without scheduled weekly meetings, that might be an ideal world.
    I have many other thoughts, some more esoteric, so I’ll post on my site in order to not dilute THIS. But the direction is…
    How do men and women share complete honesty without the woman, even accidentally, emasculating the man? Without aiding him in finding his inner HERB. If women are successful in opening up their man and convince him to share all with complete honesty, a woman may lose respect for a man for giving her what she claimed she wanted and had to have. If he discovers how good it feels to gush, tell her everything, his hopes and fears and deepest secrets, he risks being totally attainable and therefore undesirable. Always as compass, the inverse relationship between the two.
    This is possibly a Why Women Cheat comment. And, accidental emasculation may be a pandemic with lots of dead soldiers, men who are as devastated as women from relationship pain because they believed what came out of their woman’s mouth.
    When she said it, she believed it was what she most wanted. When guys say IT, blah blah blah, the hook, some believe, to some extent, on some level, that it is what they want, in the heat of the moment. They say it because it works, but I’ve been there; they say it because it is more fun, like having a lead role in a play. It ramps up the drama and intensity.
    Sometimes they get endorphin release from saying it even if their commitment level is extremely low.
    I look forward to your thoughts on women and the accidental emasculation phenom.
    😀
    C

  23. @All: I never thought I’d say this, haha but today’s Dr. Phil show was actually good. 😀 http://drphil.com/shows/show/1458/

    It was about “Alienation of Affection” and featured two of the recent high-profile women in that regard, the woman that sued for AofA and won $9,000,000 USD and the wife of the Governor that fell in love with the chick from Argentina.

    The reason I bring it up is that both women said the same thing, which was that essentially, they couldn’t believe what they saw happening before their eyes. One of them had been married over 30 years and had two kids and the other had been married over 20 years and had four kids.

    I’m glad they got to spend all that time with their husbands and I’m sorry about the breakups and the way they played out (both guys leaving their respective families). I just found it to be a couple of interesting case studies of exactly what we’ve been talking about this week.

  24. Finally, the definitive answer to why men cheat…
    Per everyone who has recently been busted and especially Tiger and Jesse James; Men (and woman) cheat because deep down inside they WANT TO GET CAUGHT! Yes, finally a real answer! Oh and let me add this tid bit “WHO THE F*CK ARE THEY FOOLIN'”!

    Last time i checked and actually asked people who may have strayed on their SO (both female and male) they admitted to cheating because, (drum roll please…) THEY.THOUGHT.THAT.THEY.WOULD.NOT.GET.CAUGHT!!!

    Im a sex addict and i wanted to get caught are the dumbest reasons a culprit can give to actually being caught doing!

    1. Agreed. That’s so stupid. If these people felt they had a problem, they would have checked themselves into rehab instead of admitting stuff AFTER they got caught *AND* leaving phone messages for chicks to try to get them to cover up the situation.

  25. i bet you regret the fact that you are not with the girl from the 14 years unofficial relationship right now, because if it is like u said “one of the most real relationship that u ever had” why you didnt commit to her? where you afraid of being dumped?

    1. Hi, pmorales. Thanks for the question. 🙂 It’s actually a very interesting one, which deserves it’s own blog post in response.

      The short answer is “No.. I do not regret that I am not “with” the girl that I’ve known for 14 years, because I’m ENTIRELY “with” her and have been ever since we started hanging out and I can’t imagine NOT being “with” her.

      The problem is that people don’t understand what makes people “together”. (In fact, that’s going to be the title of the blog post I write.)

      Every boyfriend she’s ever had is Dust. In. The. *******. Wind. and I was just kickin’ it with her yesterday. THAT’S “Together”. Claiming that I’m not going to have sex with anyone but her wouldn’t have produced any meaningful results for either one of us.

      Also, what makes someone good to spend time with and have fun with and hook up with isn’t necessarily the same thing that makes them good to date or be a girlfriend or be a wife.

      Also, when you live in a city with literally MILLIONS of women, it’s practically impossible to feel like “committing”, unless that’s something that’s natural to you. If you were looking for one girlfriend your entire life, it’s easy to find one here and settle down. There are basically 5 chicks for every 1 guy in NYC. Patti Stanger (The Millionaire Matchmaker) calls this Bigger Better Deal syndrome. There’s no point in having one woman when you can have two or seven. As long as you’re still meeting women, there’s no reason to select one of them to restrict yourself to.

      I meet new women, literally, every single week. Meanwhile, I’m still in touch with my homegirl after 14 years, when most of her relationships last a few months, and then the guys are GHOST!… POOF! 😀

      On top of that, what makes you think that SHE would have committed TO ME??? 😀

  26. men cheat because they can , simple, and they know they can get away with it . in this sexist world we live in if a man goes with 100000 girls hes a great guy, if a girl does the same, shes a slag .

    1. Exactly, Laura.

      Men “cheat” because they never had any intention of limiting themselves to having sex with one chick in the first place, but they had to play it off to get their girlfriend to lay down.

      Notice how it’s always the females that are clamoring for monogamy? o_O

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