Privilege Of Desirability

Reader “Charles” left this comment on my post “Why Guys Catcall”:

Charles: “It’s the downside of the privileged position women occupy. The desired. The valued. Men have no street value, their bodies are not desired, in fact their nudity is considered visual assault. Catcalling may be a way for the oppressed to reclaim power and agency which the mating game forbids them.”

I know Charles personally, and I realize that he really enjoys debate and finding the political significance in just about ANY scenario, haha, but he brings up a valid and important point.

Women complain, as they very well should, that guys that they don’t feel like hooking up with approach them without invitation and discuss whatever type of sex they want to have with her or try to get a date or just tell her how sexy she looks today. That’s now known as Street Harassment. At the same time, the alternate reality of the vast majority of men needs to be considered as well, which is that women *NEVER* approach them and suggest sex. o_O

Privilege Of Desirability

The way the dating game works is that guys chase girls. Period.

Cavemen have been slandered since…. well.. since the caveman days (and their talking pet dinosaurs) for hitting women over the head with a club and dragging them back to the cave for definitelty sex and probably procreation because it wasn’t until The Roman Empire that anyone was looking for a pack of Trojans:

Club or no club.. How many stories are there in history of women pressing up on men to get sex?


Similarly.. How many brothels are there where women can walk in the door, select a guy to have sex with and make that happen, so long as she has the ducats in her pocket?

Relative to locations where men can purchase sex from women?… Zero.

What does this have to do with catcalling?… In general, if a guy doesn’t attempt to get sex from a female, it’s not going to happen at all. If he doesn’t throw his hat in the ring and put in his two cents when he sees her looking good, he’s not likely to get laid by her.

Meanwhile, all women have to do is go outside, and some guy’s going to want to tap that. While this is perceived as a nuisance to a lot of women because they feel negatively about being seen as a sex object, it’s also the Privilege of Desirability.

Women are seen as valuable, right out the gate. The vast majority of men, as Charles points out, have no street value. This is why The Game is skewed in favor of the women, whose job it is to lay back and receive from whichever of their myriad suitors they select. Meanwhile, a guy has to put in A. LOT. OF. WORK. if he wants to attract even ONE female, much less maintain her sexual interest in him.

On top of that, if a guy demonstrates an inability (or lack of desire) to focus on only one woman, he gets low-rated, as if there’s something wrong with him or his brain doesn’t work properly or he hasn’t “grown up” yet or he’s still a “boy” and not a “man”… *YAWN* The whole situation is geared towards the (worthless) male demonstrating why the (valued) female should bless him with her presence at the very least, her time, attention, conversation, and way down the line, physical, sexual interest.

Personal Value

This is the genesis of buying women drinks that haven’t demonstrated ANY value to you whatsoever. You automatically go in the hole (no pun intended) for spending your hard-earned cash on someone that you probably won’t end up hooking up with, might not even end up as friends with and MIGHT receive a fake number from after she consumes the alcohol you bought her because you’re a sucker and you don’t value yourself enough to walk up to a woman on equal ground, say “Hello” and see what happens.

Do you think women buy other women drinks in order to talk to them? Nope. They just….. TALK! 😀

Have you ever seen that in your life?.. I mean, aside from being in that kind of bar when it’s women’s jobs to kick it to women. Have you *EVER* seen a woman attempt to bribe another woman for a few minutes of conversation? I know I haven’t.

I’ve never seen them bribe men either. I get bought drinks by women all the time, but that’s because we know each other and I’ve already demonstrated value to them. This is because women know that the gift that they’re bringing to the scenario is……. THEMSELVES! and not only don’t they have to spend money on you, but several minutes into the conversation, you’re extremely likely to reciprocate and offer her a refill of whatever she’s drinking in exchange for the gift of her presence, attention and loveliness.

So, while I disagree with Charles’ “blah blah oppressed regain power blah blah blah”, the fact of the matter is that if you don’t enjoy the privilege of desirability, you know damned well that if you don’t try to kick game to this chick that you’re standing next to on the street corner, she’s about a gazillion percent unlikely to turn to you and say “Hey.. You’re looking good. Let’s go hook up! >:D”

Having said that… There are definitely guys that utilize Street Harassment in an obviously-ridiculous, intimidating, advantage-taking fashion, which isn’t cool at all. :/ This would be these bum-ass dudes that know they don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a date from a particular chick, much less sex, yet they still insist on making comments to her when they pass each other on the street or get stuck next to each other in a crowded subway car.

There are also the guys that have become jaded due to their lack of desirability (for whatever reason.. lack of looks, money, humor, nice car or apartment, ability to articulate properly…) who only speak up because they know this gal isn’t going to stop and talk to them, so why not say something potentially degrading to her because this is the only chance they’ll have at catching any recreation with a female. That’s another completely wack state of mind for a guy to have.

Field Of Dreams

This brings us to another reader comment on the same article:

Liz: “The real question is: “Why don’t men care about how their catcalls make women feel?”

Catcalling IS about power. Men are still raised to feel a certain entitlement to women.”

I don’t think it’s about “entitlement to women” so much as a recognition of The Game.

The options for a guy, whether he stands a chance of hooking up with the woman he’s targeting or not, are to try to MAKE something happen or to ALLOW absolutely nothing to happen. The odds are completely and entirely stacked against anything sexual occurring that a female initiated.

Put it this way.. Let’s say that restaurants weren’t compelled to sell you food if you had the money to buy it. You could walk into a store with $100 in your pocket and they would refuse to sell you a $6 meal unless you specifically requested it. Since you entered the restaurant with the intention of eating, you have two choices, flag them down and tell them what you want, or starve, because all the other restaurants have the same policy.

Since your goal isn’t to starve, you’re likely to tell the cashier or waitress what you want.

Similarly, since guys don’t have the goal of NOT having sex with women they think are physically attractive, their options are to see what they can do or let it slide. It’s not that they feel entitled to the female. In fact, if men felt entitled to women, there wouldn’t be any catcalling at all. What do you say when you want to drink some water from your own refrigerator or from the tap on your sink? Nothing. You’re entitled to it. You want water? You drink it. There’s nothing to discuss.

It’s actually the LACK OF ENTITLEMENT that spurs on catcalling. What’s that construction worker going to get when he goes home? Nothing. He might pass by a bar after work and try to pull chicks or he might go to the strip joint, but for the most part, his entire interaction with women is yelling at the ones that pass the construction site. Same thing with dudes that stand around kicking it to females in the street. If they had anything better to do, they’d be doing it.

So, the reason why men don’t care about how their catcalls make women feel is that it’s not more important than getting laid. If you don’t say anything, she’s not going to offer sex to you. If you say something she doesn’t like, she’s not going to hook up with you. If you say something she likes, you have a chance.

There are lots of guys that care whether what they say to women makes them feel good or bad. There are lots of guys that refuse to catcall at all, because they think it’s a low-class thing to do, or it’s not their personal style. Since guys are forced to be the aggressors due to the uneven playing field for women & men when it comes to perceived desirability, how she feels about what you want may not register at all. If it IS considered, it’s most likely written off as collateral damage because if you’re trying to make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs.

In fact, if the playing field WERE even, I think catcalling would disappear entirely amongst desirable males. The disgruntled dudes will still talk yang because their goal isn’t to achieve the impossible and pull the girl.. it’s just to have SOME kind of interaction with her before she disappears and they never see her again, even if that’s just that the guy said something and the gal heard what he said.

The guys who girls actually like wouldn’t have any time for or interest in catcalling because they’d be too busy hooking up with girls that had stopped them on the street, told them how good they looked, gave him their contact information and invited him over for sex. Connect with Bill via Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace, Email Subscription, RSS Feed

29 thoughts on “Privilege Of Desirability”

  1. The catcall complaints are akin to a female Bower bird wondering why the males insist on flitting their feathers and trying to lure them into their plush little apartments. (this particular bird tends to commit to feats of twig architechture that inspired the entire 1970s home decor ethos)

    It’s about sex, sweetheart. men can knock up a nearly infinite number of women per year, while women are forced by nature to be more one-at-a-time about actual procreation. (though thanks to science we can now have mink sized litters with a different man for each fertilized egg should we need tabloid attention)

    The drive should be different because the capabilities are different, right off the top. Then add in the social standards, the man is a MAN if he can have sex with a slew of mates, a woman would be devalued should she utilize her available partner options.

    The social estimation of studliness is a reward of it’s own, and would make catcalling seem like a logical means of increasing sexual opportunities. The perjorative term “slut” makes turning these guys down quite logical also. The social incentive to have sex for it’s own sake just isn’t there, for women.

    It’s all neatly tied up in our biology, hopefully demystifying why we are the way we are will work toward improved relations, since we can’t improve our wiring.

    funny, I was talking on SL about girls who feel like they are too hot to have to pay their own way in this world. think I was that naive once…haha

    1. Hey Rebecca! 😀

      Drive, Capability, Biology.. It all points to vastly differing experiences of sex & dating for men and women, in general.

      There’s one camp that understands this and moves closer to potentially understanding “the other team”. Another camp tries to say “We’re all human beings, so we’re all the same”.

      The “Human Being” team appears to be making headway because of Political Correctness, but, in fact, the game isn’t changing and never will.

      It will never make sense to men, why women buy 16 pairs of boots that look exactly the same, yet the woman with 16 pairs of boots will stare at a new pair of the exact same boots in a store window as if she’s never seen them before and has just fallen in love with them. 😀

      It will never make sense to women, how guys can say “I love you” and then immediately screw your sister, your female cousin, and if your moms is still looking good, she could get it too. 😀

      Different stimuli. Different systems. Different responses.

      The best we can do is try to understand each other and show each other as good a time as possible.

      It’s unfortunate about the “too hot to pay” girls. They remind me of NFL football-playing hopefuls. It’s all well & good to have a 10-year career in the league, but you’d better get that education and have something to fall back on when you retire…. because you *WILL* retire…

  2. I read your post and I still think a lot of your views are old-fashioned, and fail to help men address changing gender roles, which is a BIG reason so many guys are getting left in the cold these days.

    Women ARE NOT just passive little things waiting for a man to “choose” them anymore, though a lot guys still behave like this is the case.

    As women have gained more power, woman DO target guys for sex, more and more as double standards fall away. Women are choosier I would say, but many modern girls will get what they want.

    Women do and can pay for sex, they just keep it on the DL, because of said double standards again.

    Again I think a lot of what blurs the line between what is considered street harassment and what is considered “game” is that many modern women, like me, feel that if we’re not paying a guy any attention that that should be a good enough sign that we, full human beings who run our own lives, have chosen and are not interested. Therefore, we then view guys who persist on getting into our verbal/ personal space as harassment.

    However, it seems like there are still men who feel women are ALWAYS passive, so even a women who’s completely ignoring them could potentially be game if they, the aggressive manly masculine male who makes stuff happen, says the right thing. The men see their behavior as game.

    There’s the conflict!

    Now, what the hell to do about it?

    I vote a complete societal shift!

    Or tasers.

    1. I agree with you that my views are old-fashioned.

      That’s because the old fashion is the new fashion. Nothing’s different.

      It seems like things are different because there are television shows that tell you not to call people short or retarded or use derogatory slurs towards people. Nobody wants to become a pariah, so the people that agree agree and the people that disagree don’t say anything.

      The only thing that’s different now is that women have their own money. That’s decreased the overall necessity for gold digging, and it’s given women more choice as far as whether they stay single and wait for whomever they perceive to be the right guy.

      That’s lovely, and I’m happy for y’all, but that doesn’t change one single thing as far as what guys think about and/or want from women.

      Fascinating article, btw, haha Thanks for linking it. 🙂 I’m going to have to start practicing my accents so older chicks think I’m an immigrant.

      Many modern women, like me, feel that if we’re not paying a guy any attention that that should be a good enough sign that we, full human beings who run our own lives, have chosen and are not interested. Therefore, we then view guys who persist on getting into our verbal/ personal space as harassment.

      I get what you’re saying, and I agree with you. However, the fact remains that whether you’re interested or not doesn’t trump the fact that a guy wants to hook up with you.

      There are lots of times that women start out disinterested and become interested. The way (and I know you don’t like to believe it’s a game) The Game is configured, the guy suggests, the gal gives him a hard time to get laid, and then she either holds the line and doesn’t give it up or she does what she wanted to do from the giddyap now that she’s convinced herself she’s held out long enough that she no longer qualifies as a ho.

      For instance (not that “reality” television is a measure of ANYTHING relevant, haha), look at your girl on “Basketball Wives”. She said she wasn’t going to have sex with her boyfriend until their relationship hit the 6-month mark. In last week’s episode, he made it to six months with her and she gave it up. Easy-Peasy.

      You think that by the time he had hit two months with her, he wasn’t determined to stay in the pocket until the payoff? All he had to do was wait for it. The time was going to pass automatically.

      Also, since she wasn’t giving him any, he had carte blanche to hook up with other chicks, so long as she never found out about it and re-started his six-month countdown to the action. So, she didn’t actually make him wait for anything. I’m sure she has all these lofty ideas of how modern she is and how much control she has over her relationship, but that’s how The Game works, and everybody knows it. The dude wants something, the chick pretends that she doesn’t, and she eventually comes around (or not).

      The point being that a chick ignoring your advances on the street is nothing at all, compared to waiting six months to have sex with a chick that you’re already calling your girlfriend. Y’all aren’t putting up as much of a barrier as you think you are by ignoring dudes. It’s all regular.

      However, it seems like there are still men who feel women are ALWAYS passive, so even a women who’s completely ignoring them could potentially be game if they, the aggressive manly masculine male who makes stuff happen, says the right thing. The men see their behavior as game.

      In fact, it doesn’t matter whether the women are active OR passive. The only thing that matters is whether he wants to hit it or not. If he does, he’s going to try to get that. If he doesn’t, he’s not going to say anything to her at all.

      The difference between what you and I are saying is that you’re talking about the idealistic “We’re all in this together as the human family” concept and I’m talking about… I dunno… Supply & Demand? Stimulus & Response?.. There’s a reason why porno will always sell, and it’s not because guys get to emulate “being together in the human family” with women.

      The only thing that can be done about it is to increase male awareness that kicking game to y’all gets on your nerves and hope that some of the guys change their behavior. Other than that, you can’t remove the stimulus because YOU are the stimulus, so your only hope for societal shift is to have an effect on how men express themselves to women when they feel like tappin’ that.

      1. This is where we fundamentally disagree:

        “I get what you’re saying, and I agree with you. However, the fact remains that whether you’re interested or not doesn’t trump the fact that a guy wants to hook up with you.”

        In my mind my desire to be LEFT ALONE if that’s what I desire SHOULD trump whether or not some stranger wants to hook up with me. And if he tries to project his unwanted desires on me I call that harassment. End of story. He can’t think about screwing me in every position he wants, but if I’m not wanting that….. He needs to step the hell back and let me pass.

        Sometimes I have the overwhelming urge to take a dump. But my desire to shit doesn’t trump the fact that I’m out in public and shouldn’t do it there. I try to like, you know, control myself.

        1. I read your comments below, also.

          I’m not trivializing your POV by calling them fairy tales. I’m merely stating my opinion that I don’t believe that what you want is ever going to happen.

          They can show commercials in the USA about how kids are starving in Africa and if someone doesn’t give a flying **** who starves or dies in Africa, the case is closed. No amount of “Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya” is going to get that person to donate one red cent or one Indian Nickel towards helping someone that they don’t care about to get something to eat or drink.

          Having said that, I think your concepts are worth striving for. Even though it’s not my problem, I’d welcome a world where women feel comfortable wherever they are. It wouldn’t make One. Bit. Of. Difference. to my personal life, but I’d be happy for y’all that you felt better about yourselves and your circumstances.

          I get what you’re saying about your desire to be left alone. If dudes never kicked it to any chicks except for the ones that gave them definite indications that they were willing to lay down and spread their legs for him, the Earth would be like 1/2 or 1/3 as populated as it is right now.

          It’s like, if you don’t go to work, you don’t get a paycheck. If you want to get paid, you have to go to work. You might not like your job, but you go anyway.

          Dudes don’t LIKE getting constantly rejected or ignored by women. Still, they know that their options are to throw their hat in the ring or let the next man hook up with her.

          It’s unfortunate that as I attempt to explain my POV, I appear to be advocating for lecherous behavior. 😀 I’m really not. All I’m saying is that until you can get guys to believe the way you believe, that what YOU want is more important than what THEY want, none of this societal change is going to occur for that subset of guys.

          My suggestion, therefore, is that women should restrict themselves to only kickin’ it with guys that are their type.

          I was having a conversation about Chris Brown just today. This one guy I was chatting with said “It’s never ok to hit a woman… You just shake her”. Another guy in the conversation was quaking in his boots, even having to THINK about the aftermath of shaking his woman.

          It takes all kinds… Some dudes will WAX THAT ASS. Some dudes will shake a chick. Some dudes will give her a stern talking-to that should curb her behavior in the future. Some dudes are scared to death to voice their true opinions to their women. \o/

          All I want women to do is recognize that some guys are never going to be down with their program, and that every so often, she’s going to end up dating a guy that literally wouldn’t give her the time of day if she stopped sexing him.

          Are all guys like that? No. OTOH, all guys aren’t down with the progression that women claim is occurring in society either.

          1. And those guys who aren’t down with the progression in our society are the ones who will be left behind.

            They already have been.

            That’s why they’re standing at corners panhandling for sex while the women got to work.

            But I think you’re on to something with this thing about not caring what happens to others as long as it doesn’t affect you. Why didn’t I think of that?

            So, let the omega males holla, turn to each other for sex and then die out like the ancient dodo bird.

            Why should I care?

  3. Should read: He CAN think about screwing me in every position he wants, but if I’m not wanting that….. He needs to step the hell back and let me pass.

    1. “The only thing that can be done about it is to increase male awareness that kicking game to y’all gets on your nerves and hope that some of the guys change their behavior. Other than that, you can’t remove the stimulus because YOU are the stimulus, so your only hope for societal shift is to have an effect on how men express themselves to women when they feel like tappin’ that.”

      YES that’s what I’m saying.

      Also, thinking of a future in which people treat each other better is not fairy-tale idealistic, it’s a realization of human potential that you know, led to the emancipation of slaves, women’s votes, etc.

      If you don’t agree with my points, fine. But you seem a better debater than just to trivialize them by calling them “fairy tales.”

      1. Hi Liz, for the sake of discussion:

        What’s the ratio of women such as yourself who ignore men they aren’t interested in to women who’ve been trained to ignore men (play hard to get) that they’re actually attracted to? My thought is many women may be like you but not most. Given that, what you are rightfully and clearly projecting could easily be misconstrued because that signal is not consistent across enough of the female population. For you it’s harassment if the guy steps up. Another woman could see it differently. What to do?

        FYI – I saw Going South sometime last year, granted it’s a fiction, but it didn’t seem like things went well for many of the characters involved. Didn’t the dude die?

        Getting back to the article and “reality”:
        “Take Jamaica, where 17 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line. Hustling on the beach is the only way that some young men can feed themselves and their families. No wonder they choose older women who pay better than younger ones. In Negril, the men can earn $100 (£60) for sex with a female tourist, £90 for oral sex, which Jamaican men usually regard as taboo. Many others are hired as a guide to the island and throw in sexual services, often just for as meal or a place to sleep.”

        So, this is women dropping big western money to bang potentially broke-ass dudes who are having paid sex as a means of survival for themselves and their families. Yeah, that’s empowerment all right but all in one direction. I’m curious, what are these women doing to legalize prostitution in their home countries?

    1. The guys that catcall do so because they feel like it. It’s recreation. Sometimes, it leads to getting a chick’s number or a date or sex. Most of the time, it leads to her ignoring the dude.

      It’s a win-neutral. You either get something positive from it or you don’t get anything at all. The only potential negative to catcalling is if she decides to throw her hands at you and you either have to Chris Brown her or you take the beatdown like Tiger Woods. 😀

      1. I tasered a guy in the dick once. I think that was pretty negative for him. More often I harass the guy back and embarrass him in front of his friends.

        I am not there for some little-dicked moron’s amusement. And again seeing some random woman on the street as being there for your amusement is part of the problem.

        More women say stuff back now. They way I see it, if a guy thinks he has the right to annoy me for his “amusement,” I have the express right to make him wish he had picked somebody else to work out his insecurities and/ or boredom on.

        Ah, male privilege, how I’d like to kick it in the balls.

        I also call companies and get people fired, so the lesson for the day boys: Don’t harass women from your work van!

  4. There’s another issue not talked about Re: cat calling. Have you noticed that the VAST majority of dudes that do it dont follow up in any way after the cat call? From studying the dudes that I “personally” know I’ve noticed that they fall into a couple of categories: 1- The dude doing it to look good and gain praise from nearby friends(the vast majority of these guys will ONLY cat call when they are with others but wont do it when alone) 2- Guys who know they are doing badly in life and know that there is no way in hell the chicks they catcall will respond to them but thats the outcome they REALLY want, because they wouldn’t know what to do if the chick walked back to talk to them. These types are really doing it for a little boost to their self-esteem( I still got it even though I’m broke and got no job!) 3- Gay dudes who are trying to cover up their lack of history with women by showing interest in chicks they know are busy going by to work, etc so the chance of them stopping is slim. 4- Dudes who are so thirsty for any chick at all. They know MOST women who stop for a cat call are probably low self-esteem Ho’s who are similar to them. 5- In the SMALLEST group are guys who actually have seen a chick they really are feeling and are ready to kick it if the chick stops. Just a quick summary of my observations. If I went into detail it would be way longer!

    1. Those are all excellent points. 😀

      Feel free to go into as much detail as you like in the comments section. You might need to start writing your own blog posts, in fact! 😀

      I hadn’t considered the dudes that only kick game to look good in front of their boys. I wouldn’t have known about that one because I normally see people in the same circumstances. If I met them with a group, I always hang out with them in that same group.

      That makes the situation even worse, as far as the bullying / taking advantage of women concept is concerned. I can understand in the case where the dude’s mad thirsty and has no other way of talking to girls, that he’s going to try anything he can to interact with them. If dude doesn’t even care, and does it just to showboat for his boys, that’s wack.

  5. You’re right, the “show-boating” cat-callers are wack. Just to confirm that these types do it for peer approval, think about what they do if a chick ignores their call or responds negatively infront of their friends; they verbally attack the chick they were just SUPPOSEDLY interested in(Fuck you, you stuck up bitch; you aint that cute anyway; etc). Its just retarded for them to act this way if they actually wanted to meet the chick which means it never was about the chick for these types. It really was about: 1-Guy cat-calls chick= peers say or think”He still has skills” or “He likes chicks”. 2- Guy disses chick who ignored him= peers say or think “He told that stuck-up bitch off” or ” He’s not a punk”. Remember, these peer responses are what this type of dude THINKS are happening; they may not be responding that way at all. The women who posted on this subject haven’t considered that the real reason for the cat-calls may not be about the woman at all! I believe in most cat-calling situations its all about issues WITHIN the cat-caller and the chick is just like a tool used deal with their issues. I’ve learned over the years that life isn’t “Black & White”; its a complex mix of shades of gray.

    1. Yeah, I’ve seen that traditional Jekyll & Hyde behavior. I always attributed it to dudes being stupid or disgruntled or just negative about the fact that chicks don’t want to kick it with them.

      You’re absolutely right that it has everything to do with the catcaller and nothing to do with the female. She’s just the stimulus that prompted the response.

      Unfortunately, a lot of them mentally take on too much responsibility and wonder what it was that THEY DID that caused the guy to try to get on. They think about how they were acting or walking or how they dressed.. it’s a regular mess.

      I can see dudes doing it because of the has-been factor or the save-face factor that you bring up as well. Being that I haven’t been a has-been yet, I’ve never mentally experienced that. It has to be similar to what women go through when they used to be foyine and then eventually, they’re not, and people treat them completely differently so they finally realize that they got everything they got before because they were good-looking, not because they were somehow supernaturally deserving.

    2. That’s a good point. But what does it say about our society that not all, but many men feel that verbally abusing a women is a way to demonstrate your masculinity. How fucked up is that?

      It’s really not that different than Germans in the 1930s showing each other what good Germans they are by verbally harassing Jews.

      It goes back to something that is soooooo deep in a culture: Being a man is not just about trying to have sex with women, but controlling them, and if you have to do it by calling them a “Bitch” on the street, well at least the guys won’t think you’re a punk.

  6. Honestly,

    ANd I think this is going to be my final thought:

    When I read through comments from guys about this stuff, one thing always strikes me: How much time you guys spend thinking about us, how to get with us, how to get us to notice you, etc.

    The hard truth is that we simply don’t care as much about you. We never will. We care about the resources you can bring us, but we really don’t like YOU that much. That’s where a lot of the friction comes into play.

    Must suck to spend your lives chasing creatures that couldn’t give a shit about most of you.

    1. You’re right that we spend a lot of time thinking about women. It’s because y’all have all these weirdo concepts running around in your heads that prevent you from indulging in basic, honest, authentic attraction.

      You like a guy, BUT he doesn’t make enough money.
      You like a guy, BUT he’s not willing to lie to you and tell you you’re special or important to him.
      You like a guy, BUT you know he has other girlfriends.
      You like a guy, BUT he won’t be exclusively sexual with you.
      You like a guy, BUT you didn’t shave your legs, so you’re embarrassed to drop your pants.
      You like a guy, BUT you feel 5 pounds overweight, so you don’t want to get undressed.
      You like a guy, BUT you don’t want to potentially ruin your friendship with him by giving it up.
      on and on and on and on and on and on and on…

      Guys have to deal with all this mental garbage from females that *DO* want to have sex with us. The ones that don’t are a peripheral issue. Yes, the Nay’s outnumber the Yay’s, but nobody actually needs more than one girl for sex at a time, so the chicks that aren’t DTF are irrelevant.

      Does it suck to chase women that don’t care about us? Yes….. For the guys that give a damn what women care about.

      The rest of the guys just want to have a good time, so if that involves chasing a girl that isn’t interested or dealing with the mental problems of a girl that IS interested, it’s all in the game.

      You should do a poll of guys, asking them whether they’d rather spend time with a girl that likes them that won’t have sex with them, or a girl that doesn’t like them but WILL have sex with them. I don’t think you’d be surprised at the results.

      1. No,
        It’s basically because most of you are ugly as hell. Honestly. Men don’t want to accept the cold hard truth and that’s the fact that women just don’t care as much about men and that’s why you guys have to bring something else, a lot else to the table…otherwise, it’s easier just to use the “electric man.”

        Is this why so many Omega males waste their time bothering women they could NEVER have? Because you idiots really still believe it’s all about the woman and her “weirdness” that keeps her from wanting you?

        What a bunch a self-denying arrogance.

        1. I think arrogance is a separate issue. Self denial is what keeps the whole show rolling forward and enables people to keep trying. In the case of cat-calling it can be more like someone’s doing their version of applauding, it’s just ridiculous if they think it should generate anything other than a rare response. How often does a Broadway actor say to the crowd, “Thanks for clapping, now let’s all go out for a drink!”

          The wacky thing is when some dudes (saw this happen just the other day) get all offended when the woman doesn’t respond. Dude in particular got into a very mouthy must-be-my-skin-color mode. Should’ve been in the I’m-using-the-wrong-approach mode.

    2. I don’t believe that women do not care… it depends on the female… They care, but as Bill C pointed out… there is alot of bs that goes in a wooman’s brain…


      1. A lot of that BS is actually men’s fault. I mean, it’s women’s fault for falling for it, but there’s so much pressure on them to conform that it’s really rare when they can get out from under that and think and live for themselves.

        Women “have to” be shamed into keeping their legs closed because maternity is definite, but paternity is not.

        By throwing around labels that affect women and not men, like “slut” and “whore”, you give women incentive not to have sex, but, at the same time, you make it tougher for them to actually do what they want to do when they meet a guy they feel like hooking up with. They carry the stigma themselves, in their minds, like as if they were on trial and they bring their jury with them everywhere they go.

  7. See what I was talking about, Bill? The female who posted confirmed that most women that go by are’nt even thinking about most dudes they pass on the street. The cat-calling types have “already” figured this out but they continue to cat-call because its like I said; the vast majority are doing it for their own personal issues, not because they really want the chick to stop & talk to them. I personally dont waste my time cat-calling cause I’m confident enough to walk up to a female I want to meet and start a convo between just me & her without the public hearing me throw kisses at her, etc.

  8. Hi Bill,

    here is my long promised comment, only possible because my husband took the baby out for a looong walk to give me some quality time all by myself for Mother`s Day. I just have a couple of hours and lots of things on my to-do-list, so please forgive me if anything I write is redundant, just did not have the time to read all of the other comments above.

    First of all, I`d like to say that the question that ispired this post (Why guys catcall) is not such a relevant question where I live (Germany), because men here don’t do that much. Generally speaking, the way guys kick it to women here is much more subtle, might easily go unnoticed by foreigners. One German band even wrote a song about this phenomenon, about a French exchange student named »Aurélie« who is depressed because nobody falls in love with her in Berlin and the men don`t seem to notice her beauty. Part of the lyrics in English translation (for live performance, go here:

    Aurélie the men here do like you a lot
    Look on the street everyone looks at you
    But you don’t notice anything because they don’t whistle
    And if YOU do they flee
    You have to know less is more here

    Aurélie it’s just not that simple
    Here different words carry a different weight
    All the boys lying at your feet
    Want to kiss these, even the cute ones
    But you never notice
    cause they never stop talking about soccer

    Oh Aurélie you say I shall explain to you
    How on earth Germans reproduce
    If all the flowers and the bees do nothing but smirking in Berlin
    And don’t give a damn about questions of pollination

    So while I don`t have any catcalling experiences I could write about, there are two or three aspects of Bill`s post that I`d like to comment on. The first one is this:

    »How many stories are there in history of women pressing up on men to get sex? Zero.«

    Beg to differ, there is at least one. Happened more than 20 years ago, when I was working as a volunteer at an international youth camp. There were two 18-year-olds from Australia in my group, let`s call them Pete and Tim, both good looking, especially Tim who had eyes so blue it would have made Paul Newman jealous. And there was this girl from the US in another group, let`s call her Carol. She was one of those passive-aggressive vegetarians who make everyone around them feel bad for eating meat, so I did not like her much, but she was definitely hot, a petite blond with great fashion sense and a beautiful face. One day, Pete and Tim seemed very upset, and when I asked what was wrong, Tim told me: »Carol, she came on to us last night! She told me that she hadn`t had any good sex in the last two months, and what I could do about it. And when I declined, she went to Pete and asked the same thing. It was sooo disgusting. What a slut.«

    To my embarassment I must admit that I did not jump to Carol`s defense back then. I had zero sexual experience at the time, so Carol`s boldness rendered me speechless at first. But the more I thought about the incident later, the more I felt that the boys`reaction was unfair. Tim had a girlfriend back in Australia, he had a girlfriend in his host-school and he had one at the camp. Probably all three of them believed they were in an exclusive relationship. Carol was single, so if she had gotten lucky with one of the boys that night, she would not have betrayed anybody`s trust. And yet Tim clearly believed he was morally superior to Carol….. Maybe Pete and Tim would have accepted Carol`s offer had they been ten years older, who knows. Or maybe most men would be just as uncomfortable with this kind of situation and it is only you, Bill, who would call it an »ideal world« if all women behaved like Carol. Anyway, I learned my lesson that day. I would certainly rather cut my arm off than ask a guy for sex, no matter how much I needed it.

    Next aspect is the »value theory« (that women are seen as valuable and only have to go outside to make things happen, whereas guys don`t have street value). I guess this is so simply because most men react strongly to visual stimulation and most women don`t. The only reason women are seen as valuable, »right out the gate« is because you men value looks so much. It is your own darn fault, nothing to complain about. Value other things more, and women would have to do more than just »go outside«, just like guys now, who have to start a rock band, write poetry or simply make us laugh to demonstrate their value to us.

    Last aspect is one of Bill`s replies to Liz in the few comments I did read:
    »If dudes never kicked it to any chicks except for the ones that gave them definite indications that they were willing to lay down and spread their legs for him, the Earth would be like 1/2 or 1/3 as populated as it is right now.«

    What a wonderful world. Honestly, this planet is way overpopulated, so I am all for it, even if that means I would have to change my »never-ask-for-sex«-policy. And Carol would love it, definitely. 🙂

    1. Thank you so much, Fishingrod, for giving me some of your precious time on your Mother’s Day / Day Off. 🙂 <3

      Happy Mother's Day! 😀

      Now… Apparently, you're unaware that women on vacation are insanely easy to bag.

      As soon as you say "International Youth Camp" and "Girl From The U.S." that means free sex for the foreigners… which is Y'ALL.

      This is because none of you are going back to her town or city. She can get her freak on all she likes, all day every day, and when she goes home, she'll be able to play it off sweet like she didn't hook up with anybody at all and the evidence will never surface.

      Having said that.. Certainly there are women that specifically request sex from guys they don't know from Adam. It happens. The odds, however, are very well stacked in the favor of the gal trying to finagle some kind of "relationship" out of a guy instead of trying to get practically-anonymous sex from him.

      This is for the reasons you state. Guys are mostly visual when it comes to attraction. The thought process goes directly to sex.. BEFORE what her name is.. BEFORE how much money she makes.. BEFORE whether she's married or has a boyfriend.. BEFORE whether she has any kids.. BEFORE (unfortunately) her STD status. The first thing is "Yes.. I'd like to hit that", and then a verbal interaction with her may or may not ensue.

      Pete and Tim are victims of brainwashing. It's a topic I'll blog about eventually, but all of us guys are indoctrinated with "Good Girls Don't _____". There "has to be something wrong with her" if she's actually TRYING to get laid. Someone must have done something to her in the past. She's somehow lost her mind and her sense of decency, dignity and morals.

      Meanwhile.. We're ALSO informed that it's our JOB to get sex from girls that don't want to give it to us. o_O

      This sets up the cycle where we go after girls that we THINK aren't going to give us sex and then when they "let us have their way with them", we go "Damn.. That chick was actually a slut, wasn’t she? :D” and low-rate her.

      That’s the brainwashing. Respectable women won’t give it up no matter what you try. “Sluts” will either hook up with ANYONE to get some sex, or they’re easily convinced or bought.

      I’m not blaming Pete & Tim, because that’s how I felt when I was 18, to a degree. Perhaps a milder form, but I didn’t consider the concept of women deciding to have sex from their own personal power… well, I don’t know WHEN I actually formed an opinion on it because I never cared. It was either easy or tough or impossible to hook up with a chick, is all that mattered/matterS.

      As far as moral superiority, that comes from the same brainwashing. Guys are “allowed” to chase as many chicks as we want and have as many simultaneous girlfriends as we want, but any gal that actually WANTS to give it up is “Easy” and “A Freak”, meaning sexual freak, not side-show freak. 🙂

      Also.. For the record, I like the world as it is. 😀 .. It would NOT be an ideal world if all women pressed up on whatever guys they felt like hooking up with, because then it would be GUYS receiving catcalls from women they didn’t want to hook up with.

      Forget THAT!!! 😀

      I like it the way it is, because I can be in a room with 20 gals that I don’t think are physically viable and I don’t have to worry about ANY OF THEM offering me sex. If a chick arrives that I like, I have the option of speaking to her or not speaking to her. It’s actually perfect.

      In fact, I’d be amazingly annoyed if things worked in the opposite direction, so let’s keep everything status quo! 😉

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